1 00:00:18,350 --> 00:00:20,730 (Moderator) Welcome to Europe's role in the world, 2 00:00:20,810 --> 00:00:25,310 „Dialogue with students on the future of Europe“. 3 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:26,720 I am Daniel Erk. 4 00:00:26,810 --> 00:00:30,980 Please allow me to welcome our hostess for today, 5 00:00:31,060 --> 00:00:32,220 Federal Chancellor Angela Merkel. 6 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:33,990 A fairly welcome to you, Chancellor. 7 00:00:34,090 --> 00:00:36,490 (Angela Merkel) Thank you. And obviously I greet all of you. 8 00:00:36,580 --> 00:00:39,100 I am delighted to be with you 9 00:00:39,210 --> 00:00:42,530 and I am very much looking forward to the discussions we shall have. 10 00:00:42,630 --> 00:00:45,360 (Moderator) Over the next 90 minutes we will talk 11 00:00:45,450 --> 00:00:49,990 with 10 students who have been chosen 12 00:00:50,090 --> 00:00:52,740 by the German academic exchange program 13 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:54,900 and by Erasmus program 14 00:00:55,000 --> 00:01:00,980 and they will discuss with us what is for you the way of life of Europe, 15 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:03,450 what is the way of life for you. 16 00:01:03,550 --> 00:01:05,310 Madame Chancellor, why is it so important for you 17 00:01:05,390 --> 00:01:07,240 to discuss this with students? 18 00:01:07,320 --> 00:01:11,170 (Angela Merkel) Well, this conference is actually 19 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:15,160 about the future of Europe and when we talk about the future of Europe, 20 00:01:15,260 --> 00:01:18,320 obviously we want to talk to young people. 21 00:01:18,420 --> 00:01:21,440 The Erasmus program for example, in my mind, 22 00:01:21,540 --> 00:01:26,160 is something that is one of the arguably most successful programs. 23 00:01:26,260 --> 00:01:30,430 Whenever there is criticism that you would like to voice obviously, 24 00:01:30,530 --> 00:01:35,450 I gladly listen to you, but I think on a whole it is a tremendous success 25 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:38,270 that this program enables young people from all over Europe 26 00:01:38,370 --> 00:01:42,540 to get to know one another, to walk together, to meet 27 00:01:42,620 --> 00:01:47,070 and we would like to hear some kind of experience 28 00:01:47,170 --> 00:01:49,940 that these young people share with us and where they feel 29 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:51,980 we can be better and Europe can be done better. 30 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:54,970 Not from the vantage point of those who actually in the legislation 31 00:01:55,070 --> 00:01:58,740 but from those who actually live Europe every day and experience it. 32 00:01:58,830 --> 00:02:01,570 (Moderator) When you mention this conference of Europe, 33 00:02:01,670 --> 00:02:06,270 and that may not be something that all of our viewers are familiar with, 34 00:02:06,370 --> 00:02:11,150 but what this conference is all about, what objectives, 35 00:02:11,250 --> 00:02:15,360 what goals it has, will be shown to you in a film now: 36 00:02:23,140 --> 00:02:25,690 „I wish for many measures that build confidence, 37 00:02:25,790 --> 00:02:28,980 so that we and all of our diversity can tackle things 38 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:31,400 that need to be tackled.“ 39 00:02:31,500 --> 00:02:35,980 „United in diversity, a humanist and free of anti-semitism.“ 40 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:39,270 „Climate neutral, and digitalization needs to be brought forward.“ 41 00:02:39,370 --> 00:02:45,790 „We wish for a Europe that is full of love, always and everywhere.“ 42 00:02:45,890 --> 00:02:49,730 „ I hope for a Europe that offers not only freedom for companies 43 00:02:49,830 --> 00:02:52,110 but also security for its citizens.“ 44 00:02:52,750 --> 00:02:55,450 What is supposed to be the shape of Europe in the future? 45 00:02:55,550 --> 00:02:59,190 Your ideas and visions, that is what we know about. 46 00:02:59,290 --> 00:03:04,010 So please participate in this European wide dialogue process, 47 00:03:04,110 --> 00:03:08,260 it has been already launched on the 9th of May, 48 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:13,550 in the plenary chamber of the European Parliament in Strasbourg. 49 00:03:13,650 --> 00:03:19,670 The centre of this conference is an interactive multilingual platform. 50 00:03:19,770 --> 00:03:23,170 All of the information is to be found on this platform. 51 00:03:23,270 --> 00:03:32,050 Discuss, comment and actually host your own events. 52 00:03:32,150 --> 00:03:36,240 From the Covid-19 crisis, digitalisation 53 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:38,100 and Europe's role in the world, 54 00:03:38,180 --> 00:03:41,470 climate change, all of these issues can be dealt with. 55 00:03:41,580 --> 00:03:46,040 And the federal government too, is participating in this dialogue. 56 00:03:46,140 --> 00:03:51,340 Under these hashtags you will find it on social media as well. 57 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:53,210 On all of the different channels. 58 00:03:53,310 --> 00:03:57,120 And obviously all the progress and ideas of this conference. 59 00:03:57,220 --> 00:03:59,660 The future of Europe is in your hands! 60 00:04:06,090 --> 00:04:09,600 (Moderator) Europe's role in the world is what we would like to discuss 61 00:04:09,700 --> 00:04:15,710 this afternoon with 10 students all the way from Bonn, 62 00:04:15,810 --> 00:04:20,410 Friedrichshain, Trient and the Czech Republic. 63 00:04:20,510 --> 00:04:24,470 So please allow us to welcome our guests here this afternoon. 64 00:04:24,570 --> 00:04:27,220 A very warm welcome to all of you! 65 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:30,670 We would like to start with you. 66 00:04:30,770 --> 00:04:35,060 Last year you participated in an Erasmus program 67 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:36,720 at the University College in London, 68 00:04:36,820 --> 00:04:39,180 you studied under Corona conditions, 69 00:04:39,280 --> 00:04:44,090 you also felt how Brexit works out in practice, 70 00:04:44,190 --> 00:04:46,550 so what was your experience? 71 00:04:46,650 --> 00:04:49,970 What did you learn about the European way of life there? 72 00:04:50,450 --> 00:04:53,100 (Change of speaker) Hello! Hello, Madame Chancellor. 73 00:04:53,210 --> 00:04:55,350 I think we are all nervous. 74 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:59,150 (Angela Merkel) You don't need to be nervous. 75 00:04:59,230 --> 00:05:01,710 No one is nervous after all. 76 00:05:01,850 --> 00:05:03,800 (Change of speaker) We are but we are trying to pull ourselves together. 77 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:06,640 Anyway, you already mentioned I was in London. 78 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:13,220 Actually, until December 2020, and unfortunately only for three months, 79 00:05:13,330 --> 00:05:17,590 but I was able to actually get a lot of first hand experiences. 80 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:20,790 Particularly what Erasmus is all about. 81 00:05:20,890 --> 00:05:23,960 Many students from other European countries were in on this, 82 00:05:24,060 --> 00:05:30,290 we met, we were able in spite of the Covid rules to meet via Facebook, 83 00:05:30,390 --> 00:05:36,340 by WhatsApp, and try to find people who, under these changed conditions, 84 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:37,530 are abroad. 85 00:05:37,610 --> 00:05:40,530 I had a group of people who came from Belgium, France, 86 00:05:40,690 --> 00:05:45,420 from the south of Tyrol, so Italy and a lot of people from Germany. 87 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:50,590 And I think what we all felt at that time was obviously on the one hand 88 00:05:50,690 --> 00:05:56,500 that we were in this very special situation where we tried to make 89 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:59,960 as much as possible out of this particular moment, 90 00:06:00,060 --> 00:06:03,870 in spite of digital semesters, in spite of several lockdowns 91 00:06:03,970 --> 00:06:05,250 we experienced. 92 00:06:05,350 --> 00:06:07,960 But we also could feel when we talked to people 93 00:06:08,060 --> 00:06:12,330 who were actually from London, who were based in London, 94 00:06:12,430 --> 00:06:15,550 that there was a bit of melancholia. 95 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:20,920 I remember one of my fellow students who wanted to stay 96 00:06:21,020 --> 00:06:26,210 for a year in London, but who then had to contend 97 00:06:26,310 --> 00:06:29,740 to deal with all of the bureaucracy, 31st of December 98 00:06:29,830 --> 00:06:32,170 in regards of Visa and so on. 99 00:06:32,270 --> 00:06:34,160 Quite a lot has actually changed. 100 00:06:34,260 --> 00:06:39,340 But on the whole it was still great to be able to do this. 101 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:41,830 And I think Erasmus is emblematic of that 102 00:06:41,930 --> 00:06:47,050 exchange with other people from different nations. 103 00:06:47,150 --> 00:06:53,550 It is a pity for us, for as Germans, or generally for Europeans as whole, 104 00:06:53,650 --> 00:06:58,800 that Britain is no longer a part of that, but the reverse is also true, 105 00:06:58,900 --> 00:07:04,250 I had a lot of sadness that these possibilities seem to be gone. 106 00:07:04,350 --> 00:07:09,350 (Moderator) You said melancholia, do you feel 107 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:12,510 that something that actually belongs together, is breaking up? 108 00:07:12,930 --> 00:07:13,930 (Change of speaker) Yes, in a way. 109 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:17,780 But that is something that, I mean you are in a bubble, are you not? 110 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:22,150 I was in London at that time, when you looked at the referendum 111 00:07:22,250 --> 00:07:26,860 and the election, it was such that young people 112 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:30,810 were arguing very much the case, also through the votes, that they cast 113 00:07:30,940 --> 00:07:33,900 to stay in the Union whereas older people 114 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:36,660 tended more for leaving the Union. 115 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:40,500 And that is something that we also saw here in Germany in the media. 116 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,790 Obviously the Brits themselves that said, 117 00:07:43,870 --> 00:07:47,010 but we still feel to be part of Europe, 118 00:07:47,100 --> 00:07:51,780 in spite of this, but it is difficult for me to make a general judgement. 119 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:54,160 When you are in a pub obviously, 120 00:07:54,260 --> 00:07:57,240 perhaps the mood is somewhere generally different 121 00:07:57,340 --> 00:08:00,120 than outside in the countryside. 122 00:08:00,220 --> 00:08:03,740 (Angela Merkel) If you were to say what are your ideas, 123 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:07,930 what do you think is typical for Europe, the European way of life, 124 00:08:08,010 --> 00:08:11,150 what do you think is important, what should be part of that, 125 00:08:11,250 --> 00:08:15,490 what perhaps was lacking for many British citizens. 126 00:08:15,590 --> 00:08:17,790 So what's your idea? 127 00:08:17,890 --> 00:08:19,240 I mean, we would like to find out. 128 00:08:19,340 --> 00:08:23,410 If you have a question, directed to me you can obviously ask that. 129 00:08:25,420 --> 00:08:29,540 (Change of speaker) I would say for me Europe is freedom and diversity 130 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:31,620 and I think something that you see time and again, 131 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:33,480 it's something that you see through the media 132 00:08:33,580 --> 00:08:36,240 when you travel to a different European country, 133 00:08:36,340 --> 00:08:41,660 when you have contact with other people, then it's really something 134 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:43,700 that you feel in your heart. 135 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:47,740 I think we are relatively lucky to be living in Europe. 136 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:50,160 That is also something when you compare it for example 137 00:08:50,260 --> 00:08:55,870 to the United States, because you travel three hours to nothing, 138 00:08:55,970 --> 00:08:58,660 to an empty country, and here in three hours you can already travel 139 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:02,330 to other countries and you see different cultures 140 00:09:02,430 --> 00:09:05,450 and that is definitely what Europe is to me. 141 00:09:05,550 --> 00:09:10,360 But which also, I would hope and pray, others are ready 142 00:09:10,460 --> 00:09:14,930 and willing to present in a dialogue with Britain 143 00:09:15,010 --> 00:09:16,280 and continue that dialogue. 144 00:09:16,380 --> 00:09:19,200 Perhaps be it through a different kind of program, 145 00:09:19,290 --> 00:09:22,700 perhaps contract between the different universities, faculties. 146 00:09:22,790 --> 00:09:25,700 We are students, we are after all here with you, 147 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:28,200 in order to explain what is important to us. 148 00:09:28,300 --> 00:09:30,160 The possibilities should be open to students 149 00:09:30,260 --> 00:09:35,990 and I ask again, for my faculty for example, I study economics in Berlin, 150 00:09:36,090 --> 00:09:39,620 this year it was simply not possible to travel to the UK 151 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:43,870 because of the contract were put on hold, they were saying, 152 00:09:43,970 --> 00:09:45,030 it's not possible. 153 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:50,370 That is a situation where I would think, no longer shows the spirit, 154 00:09:50,470 --> 00:09:52,950 it doesn't embody that spirit of freedom anymore. 155 00:09:53,050 --> 00:09:54,910 And I think I would hope for that. 156 00:09:55,010 --> 00:09:56,790 (Angela Merkel) Yes, I will take that with me. 157 00:09:56,890 --> 00:10:00,810 Because on Friday I will meet with Prime Minister Boris Johnson 158 00:10:00,900 --> 00:10:04,910 and we will talk about the future relations between our countries. 159 00:10:05,010 --> 00:10:08,950 I would very much hope and pray that particularly human contacts, 160 00:10:09,050 --> 00:10:12,530 people to people contacts, that was so close of the past years 161 00:10:12,630 --> 00:10:15,490 that these are possible also in the future. 162 00:10:15,930 --> 00:10:17,070 What else? 163 00:10:17,170 --> 00:10:19,910 The Erasmus program, is that something that you would criticize 164 00:10:20,010 --> 00:10:22,980 as regards of program or for example 165 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:25,290 when you apply for the program or something like that? 166 00:10:27,220 --> 00:10:29,700 (Change of speaker) Well, I can only say from my own experience 167 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:36,570 that Erasmus is particularly something in countries with a high income, 168 00:10:36,670 --> 00:10:41,730 in expensive countries, something that presupposes a certain privilege. 169 00:10:41,830 --> 00:10:44,190 Because it is a good thing, I know it's difficult, 170 00:10:44,290 --> 00:10:49,820 but 450€ per month is not something that actually goes a long way 171 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:51,940 towards supporting you in London for example. 172 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:53,980 I mean, there are scholarships obviously 173 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:55,560 that you can also apply for. 174 00:10:55,660 --> 00:10:59,650 But I also wanted to mention this because there are a number of students 175 00:10:59,750 --> 00:11:03,650 that I know, because of the financial situation that they are in, 176 00:11:03,750 --> 00:11:07,690 that they were simply not able to participate in this program 177 00:11:07,790 --> 00:11:11,560 and they did not choose the destination they originally wanted to go. 178 00:11:11,660 --> 00:11:16,650 And this was not because of their abilities but because of the finances. 179 00:11:16,750 --> 00:11:20,070 I mean, I can't present any immediate solution because obviously 180 00:11:20,170 --> 00:11:22,100 the cost is a factor. 181 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:24,730 But the concept as such is very simple. 182 00:11:24,830 --> 00:11:28,780 It is not that much bureaucracy as one thinks. 183 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:31,230 Well, I have nothing to criticize there. 184 00:11:31,340 --> 00:11:37,360 And the curricula too, was very well-planned, very interesting for me. 185 00:11:37,460 --> 00:11:42,280 Because it is a completely different system, different priorities also 186 00:11:42,380 --> 00:11:47,860 and you get away a little bit from Germany and the way that Euro-, 187 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:49,520 that Germany-centrism we have. 188 00:11:49,620 --> 00:11:54,440 (Angela Merkel) 450€ in London and 450€ in Sofia and Riga, 189 00:11:54,540 --> 00:11:56,850 well, there is obviously a huge difference. 190 00:11:56,950 --> 00:11:58,230 That is certainly true. 191 00:11:58,330 --> 00:12:01,060 Okay, I'll take this up as well. 192 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:03,320 Without unfortunately being able to promise you anything 193 00:12:03,420 --> 00:12:04,940 as yet but thank you. 194 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:09,820 (Moderator) Maybe that is a good point to go to Stella Kim 195 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:15,940 in Trient who is actually part of a so-called Erasmus Mundus program. 196 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:22,110 But she comes from Heidelberg originally and is now studying, 197 00:12:22,210 --> 00:12:25,490 she studied in Frankfurt and Seoul, and is now going to Scotland, Italy. 198 00:12:25,590 --> 00:12:27,700 And I think next is Prague. 199 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:28,900 Right? 200 00:12:30,540 --> 00:12:31,860 (Change of speaker) Yes. 201 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:37,770 Next semester as of September I will go to Prague. 202 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:45,190 I chose a so-called Erasmus Mundus master 203 00:12:45,290 --> 00:12:49,520 because that offered a possibility not only to study in one European country 204 00:12:49,620 --> 00:12:50,900 but in three. 205 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:53,440 I thought that is something that I am going to use. 206 00:12:53,540 --> 00:12:55,650 (Angela Merkel) How long are you there, in each country? 207 00:12:55,750 --> 00:12:57,570 (Change of speaker) In Scotland I was for three months, 208 00:12:57,670 --> 00:13:01,190 in Italy for six month and in Prague again six months. 209 00:13:01,290 --> 00:13:02,360 (Angela Merkel) In Italy where? 210 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:04,060 (Change of speaker) In Trient. 211 00:13:04,740 --> 00:13:06,730 (Angela Merkel) Okay, very nice, beautiful. 212 00:13:06,830 --> 00:13:10,490 Even I was there once I remember. 213 00:13:10,590 --> 00:13:11,940 In the middle of the conference. 214 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:13,570 Prague is a beautiful city. 215 00:13:13,670 --> 00:13:21,480 I was there when I was in my youth, many many years ago, as a young-. 216 00:13:21,580 --> 00:13:23,770 I was trying to get my doctorate there. 217 00:13:23,870 --> 00:13:27,940 Do you speak a little bit of Czech? 218 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:29,150 (Change of speaker) Not yet. 219 00:13:29,250 --> 00:13:32,530 But I have two more months to learn a little bit. 220 00:13:32,630 --> 00:13:36,110 (Angela Merkel) And first Italian is probably the language of choice. 221 00:13:36,210 --> 00:13:37,300 (Change of speaker) Yes. That's true. 222 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:40,820 I am really truly happy, truly happy, 223 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:43,440 because it is a unique opportunity when you get to know 224 00:13:43,540 --> 00:13:45,600 three different educational systems. 225 00:13:45,700 --> 00:13:47,190 That is always a challenge. 226 00:13:47,290 --> 00:13:50,280 But I mean that makes you grow. 227 00:13:50,380 --> 00:13:52,940 It certainly was an incredible possibility. 228 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:58,210 My sort of study is also very varied 229 00:13:58,300 --> 00:14:00,130 because I meet people from the United States, 230 00:14:00,210 --> 00:14:03,850 from European countries obviously, but also from Asia or Southeast Asia. 231 00:14:03,950 --> 00:14:07,080 (Angela Merkel) What is good about Europe, 232 00:14:07,180 --> 00:14:10,870 what seems to be different, where do you have difficulties? 233 00:14:12,670 --> 00:14:16,360 (Change of speaker) I must say, but also formed by decision 234 00:14:16,470 --> 00:14:21,370 to use this Erasmus Mundus master, to choose this, 235 00:14:21,470 --> 00:14:23,530 is because it is so easy to go abroad. 236 00:14:23,630 --> 00:14:31,160 Can telephone home so cheaply, you have the Euro, 237 00:14:31,260 --> 00:14:33,080 travelling is easy within Europe. 238 00:14:33,180 --> 00:14:38,360 So I thought that is something that I really ought to use, this opportunity. 239 00:14:39,300 --> 00:14:42,700 Since I was in Scotland I'm also familiar with problems 240 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:44,830 that are coming up due to Brexit. 241 00:14:44,930 --> 00:14:47,410 I saw this with my British fellow students. 242 00:14:47,510 --> 00:14:50,910 It was much more difficult for them to get a visa for Italy for example. 243 00:14:51,010 --> 00:14:53,040 And all of that is going to-, 244 00:14:53,140 --> 00:14:54,660 well, we are going to see how this is going to play out. 245 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:59,240 (Angela Merkel) Yes, we do hope that this is going to somehow function 246 00:14:59,350 --> 00:15:00,350 in the future. 247 00:15:00,430 --> 00:15:04,580 And the different ways of learning, is the Scottish system 248 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:08,450 and the Italian system and the German system, are there differences? 249 00:15:08,550 --> 00:15:10,030 What is better, what is not so good? 250 00:15:10,130 --> 00:15:12,460 (Change of speaker) Well, you always learn, don't you? 251 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:17,360 In Scotland it was-, you work together in small groups. 252 00:15:17,460 --> 00:15:21,410 Here in Italy it is more sort of frontal teaching, 253 00:15:21,510 --> 00:15:28,620 so a lot more where you actually go and get readings. 254 00:15:28,710 --> 00:15:31,240 And then in Germany it is a good mix. 255 00:15:31,340 --> 00:15:35,910 So I must say that I, after all, obtained my bachelor 256 00:15:36,010 --> 00:15:38,910 and later on decided to go for the master certificate. 257 00:15:39,010 --> 00:15:41,770 (Angela Merkel) And you feel that you don't have any disadvantages 258 00:15:41,860 --> 00:15:43,490 compared to others? 259 00:15:43,570 --> 00:15:46,410 You were well equipped, so to speak, to meet the challenge. 260 00:15:46,510 --> 00:15:47,510 (Change of speaker) Yes, I am. 261 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,740 (Angela Merkel) What would you hope for the future for Europe? 262 00:15:50,850 --> 00:15:53,740 What do you think would you like to see? 263 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:55,820 (Change of speaker) Well, I think I'd like to see a little bit 264 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:58,280 more solidarity among the countries. 265 00:15:58,380 --> 00:16:01,070 Because that is something that you can also project to other countries. 266 00:16:01,170 --> 00:16:06,780 You can project now Europe stands for democracy, freedom of opinion, 267 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:08,360 it stands for freedom of travel 268 00:16:08,460 --> 00:16:11,080 and that is something that you can see when you live in different countries 269 00:16:11,180 --> 00:16:12,540 in Europe. 270 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:16,330 I would hope and see that this is perhaps filled with life more. 271 00:16:17,340 --> 00:16:19,450 (Moderator) Maybe that would be a good transition 272 00:16:19,550 --> 00:16:26,030 to Mister Alonso who actually has a Spanish name 273 00:16:26,130 --> 00:16:28,660 but was born and grew up in Siegen. 274 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:30,950 And then went to Sevilla. 275 00:16:31,050 --> 00:16:34,620 So, what was your view of the country, 276 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:38,330 what did you experience when you were there on the ground, 277 00:16:38,430 --> 00:16:41,240 do you have a different feeling maybe for what is Spanish, 278 00:16:41,340 --> 00:16:42,990 what is European, what is German, 279 00:16:43,090 --> 00:16:45,280 have you taken something away from ---? 280 00:16:46,550 --> 00:16:48,660 (Change of speaker) Madame Chancellor, 281 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:51,580 it's great that you took your time 282 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:54,040 on your farewell to talk to some students. 283 00:16:54,140 --> 00:17:00,830 (Angela Merkel) Well, farewell, this is really not part of any farewell tour. 284 00:17:00,930 --> 00:17:04,310 But I was happy to take the time. 285 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:08,500 (Change of speaker) Of course you can come to Siegen 286 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:09,830 on your real farewell tour. 287 00:17:09,930 --> 00:17:12,250 (Angela Merkel) Well, I don't know yet. 288 00:17:12,350 --> 00:17:14,830 Perhaps there won't be a farewell tour. 289 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:19,320 (Change of speaker) Now the press is listening up, 290 00:17:19,420 --> 00:17:21,540 picking their ears and writing everything down. 291 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:23,830 (Angela Merkel) Well, that is very well possible. 292 00:17:23,910 --> 00:17:26,730 Okay, let's see about that. 293 00:17:28,300 --> 00:17:35,320 (Change of speaker) My parents are Spanish, I was born in Germany 294 00:17:35,420 --> 00:17:39,620 and I have both citizenships. 295 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:44,660 And for me, Erasmus probably had a different meaning, 296 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:46,740 a different relevance than for other people. 297 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:49,960 Some people just wanted to spend some time abroad. 298 00:17:50,060 --> 00:17:55,410 I really wanted to see how much of Spain is actually inside me. 299 00:17:55,510 --> 00:17:58,910 Of course I had travelled the country before with my family. 300 00:17:59,010 --> 00:18:01,540 But I had never lived in Spain. 301 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:07,830 I had only ever passed my holidays there. 302 00:18:07,930 --> 00:18:12,460 This is something that many Spaniards are very unhappy about. 303 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:17,740 They say, well, it's a great country to spend your holidays in 304 00:18:17,850 --> 00:18:20,820 but living here is not so easy. 305 00:18:20,910 --> 00:18:24,040 And so I was very happy to do this semester. 306 00:18:24,140 --> 00:18:27,330 It was of course a difficult semester because of Corona virus 307 00:18:27,430 --> 00:18:29,910 and it was a very good time for me. 308 00:18:31,430 --> 00:18:36,160 (Angela Merkel) What exactly did you learn about yourself, 309 00:18:36,260 --> 00:18:39,200 to what extent are you Spanish and what part of you is Spanish? 310 00:18:39,300 --> 00:18:41,030 (Change of speaker) It's an exciting question. 311 00:18:41,130 --> 00:18:46,280 Well, I really wanted to find out how much of Spain there was in me. 312 00:18:46,380 --> 00:18:50,580 But then I discovered that this was really a strange question. 313 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:55,480 Because I am not really a patriot, either Spanish or German patriot, 314 00:18:55,580 --> 00:18:58,700 I like Germany but I am not proud of being German 315 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:02,870 and nor am I proud of being Spanish. 316 00:19:02,970 --> 00:19:08,710 And I just take the freedom to be who I am. 317 00:19:09,010 --> 00:19:12,440 Of course there are some German aspects inside me. 318 00:19:12,540 --> 00:19:17,660 I am very punctual, I like to be on time, but I also love the sun. 319 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:23,910 (Angela Merkel) It seems that there are German too that like the sun. 320 00:19:24,010 --> 00:19:25,830 (Change of speaker) Yes. 321 00:19:25,930 --> 00:19:29,420 But you don't live in Siegen Wittgenstein 322 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:32,120 which is one of the most rainy regions in Germany. 323 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,990 (Angela Merkel) But I think there is many people 324 00:19:35,070 --> 00:19:38,900 who really would like to see most sunshine. 325 00:19:38,980 --> 00:19:43,380 (Change of speaker) Yes. Anyway, I am a European. 326 00:19:43,460 --> 00:19:46,910 (Angela Merkel) Do you like to eat late in the evening? 327 00:19:48,060 --> 00:19:53,590 (Change of speaker) That was really extreme with my two fellow students. 328 00:19:53,690 --> 00:19:58,380 They sometimes put on the deep fryer at midnight. 329 00:19:59,260 --> 00:20:05,630 I work full time, so I can't really deep fry my food at midnight, 330 00:20:05,730 --> 00:20:08,630 my sleeping habits I think are German. 331 00:20:08,730 --> 00:20:13,460 I don't really have a siesta because if I do that, then I am just groggy 332 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:16,210 and perhaps angry. 333 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:27,050 (Angela Merkel) You also went on the way of St. James. 334 00:20:27,150 --> 00:20:33,670 I only did part of it, well perhaps 5 km or so on the Camino. 335 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:43,080 I got a bit of an idea but you apparently walked 1700 km. 336 00:20:43,180 --> 00:20:45,130 That way you really learn a lot about it. 337 00:20:45,230 --> 00:20:47,440 (Change of speaker) Well, I did it in two bits. 338 00:20:47,540 --> 00:20:55,050 So, in 2015 I did 900 km and 2017 I did 800 km. 339 00:20:55,150 --> 00:21:00,710 So, the second part was in Spain or most of it was in Spain. 340 00:21:00,810 --> 00:21:04,340 But you meet people from everywhere in the world. 341 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,250 But this was when I really discovered 342 00:21:07,350 --> 00:21:10,840 and decided that I wanted to learn more about Spain. 343 00:21:10,940 --> 00:21:15,590 This is really the reason why I decided to spend my semester abroad 344 00:21:15,690 --> 00:21:16,800 in Sevilla. 345 00:21:16,900 --> 00:21:19,380 (Angela Merkel) What are your hopes for Europe? 346 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:23,550 What would you like to see in Europe in terms of values and so forth? 347 00:21:24,230 --> 00:21:27,170 (Change of speaker) Well, things should be-. 348 00:21:27,270 --> 00:21:33,590 It should be something that you can take as given. 349 00:21:33,690 --> 00:21:38,920 All of us here, the young people here, we all grew up in Europe, 350 00:21:39,020 --> 00:21:42,340 we don't know it any different. 351 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:43,540 We have grown up with the Euro. 352 00:21:43,650 --> 00:21:46,760 I think I was six when the Euro was introduced. 353 00:21:49,270 --> 00:21:54,000 So I can't really remember the time before the Euro. 354 00:21:55,130 --> 00:21:59,550 So, on the one hand you must not take it for granted, 355 00:21:59,650 --> 00:22:06,430 but on the other hand, you need to take things for given, 356 00:22:06,530 --> 00:22:07,970 you need to accept these things. 357 00:22:08,070 --> 00:22:11,270 For instance, in the US, you can travel for hours on end 358 00:22:11,360 --> 00:22:12,680 and still be in the same country. 359 00:22:12,780 --> 00:22:14,170 But it is not the same in Europe. 360 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:17,420 And I think it is fascinating, you start in Finland 361 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,300 and then go to Portugal for instance, 362 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:24,550 just think about how many different regions and countries you travel. 363 00:22:24,650 --> 00:22:28,180 I think I would like to see less nationalism. 364 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:32,550 I would like people to see themselves less 365 00:22:32,650 --> 00:22:37,800 as Finns or Germans or Danish people and more as Europeans. 366 00:22:37,900 --> 00:22:41,750 That I think would be wonderful if it were normal to say, 367 00:22:41,850 --> 00:22:44,550 my daughter works in Finland 368 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:50,500 and the other daughter works in Lithuania or Latvia. 369 00:22:51,030 --> 00:22:52,090 (Angela Merkel) Thank you! 370 00:22:54,610 --> 00:22:57,880 (Moderator) Mister Tylk perhaps should join the discussion. 371 00:22:57,980 --> 00:23:01,470 He was born in the Czech Republic, 372 00:23:01,570 --> 00:23:09,130 then came to Marburg as a school student and is now studying in Aachen. 373 00:23:09,230 --> 00:23:14,840 So, would you say that this new normality is this something 374 00:23:14,940 --> 00:23:20,770 that you also feel now that you have spent so much time in Germany? 375 00:23:22,050 --> 00:23:26,140 (Change of speaker) First of all, I would like to say how pleased I am 376 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:28,510 to be here today. 377 00:23:28,610 --> 00:23:31,300 I think the answer is yes. 378 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:38,180 I think it is very important to visit other countries. 379 00:23:40,450 --> 00:23:46,010 Older people perhaps don't travel at all, or very little. 380 00:23:46,530 --> 00:23:54,210 I think it is very important to experience other countries. 381 00:23:56,740 --> 00:24:03,090 But for me, for instance, I found out that Germans are really very similar 382 00:24:03,190 --> 00:24:05,590 to Czech people. 383 00:24:05,690 --> 00:24:08,220 There aren't that many differences. 384 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:14,800 So, if you go to a restaurant in Aachen or in Brno, 385 00:24:14,900 --> 00:24:18,880 you find that you meet similar people. 386 00:24:18,980 --> 00:24:23,390 And I think that the time I spent in Germany 387 00:24:23,490 --> 00:24:30,170 has really enhanced my feeling of being a European 388 00:24:30,270 --> 00:24:32,510 or my understanding that I am European. 389 00:24:32,610 --> 00:24:35,880 We all live together in Europe. 390 00:24:37,150 --> 00:24:44,800 And yes, we need to tackle the same problems. 391 00:24:44,900 --> 00:24:51,220 And as some of the others also said, it's not really that far. 392 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:54,390 (Angela Merkel) When you spent time in Marburg and in Aachen, 393 00:24:54,490 --> 00:24:57,880 was there anything that you missed 394 00:24:57,980 --> 00:25:00,630 or anything that you learned to appreciate, 395 00:25:00,730 --> 00:25:03,850 something that was new to you? 396 00:25:04,420 --> 00:25:06,680 (Change of speaker) Well, what did I miss? 397 00:25:10,610 --> 00:25:13,220 Probably music. 398 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:19,640 Because I love music and in Czech Republic I have a lot of friends, 399 00:25:19,740 --> 00:25:21,170 we come together. 400 00:25:21,610 --> 00:25:25,550 (Angela Merkel) You are also president of the Czech academic choir, 401 00:25:25,650 --> 00:25:27,500 as I hear. 402 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:30,470 (Change of speaker) Yes. 403 00:25:30,570 --> 00:25:33,760 We have a conductor and I am her right hand basically. 404 00:25:36,700 --> 00:25:39,930 (Angela Merkel) So, what kind of music do you sing? 405 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:44,760 (Change of speaker) Usually classical music, opera, 406 00:25:44,860 --> 00:25:50,590 at the National Theatre of Brno, several other things. 407 00:25:50,690 --> 00:25:56,870 Two years ago, for instance, we did a tour with Sabaton. 408 00:25:56,950 --> 00:26:04,760 We toured Europe, we spent time in the Netherlands, in Germany. 409 00:26:06,710 --> 00:26:09,700 So we do lots of interesting things. 410 00:26:12,940 --> 00:26:15,800 (Angela Merkel) And you studied in Aachen 411 00:26:15,900 --> 00:26:21,030 at a very renowned university, at the technical University of Aachen. 412 00:26:21,110 --> 00:26:22,110 You are hydrologist. 413 00:26:22,190 --> 00:26:26,210 So what is it that you appreciated a lot, perhaps something 414 00:26:26,310 --> 00:26:31,970 that you would otherwise not have learned perhaps in Prague or Brno? 415 00:26:34,300 --> 00:26:37,870 (Change of speaker) Well, I went there because my university 416 00:26:37,970 --> 00:26:44,220 or my professor had contacts to this university. 417 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,430 He said, it is a very good university, 418 00:26:46,530 --> 00:26:48,800 I can only recommend that you go there. 419 00:26:48,900 --> 00:26:50,880 So I went. 420 00:26:50,980 --> 00:26:58,840 And in Brno we tend to take a theoretical approach to our studies. 421 00:26:58,930 --> 00:27:02,100 In Aachen at the technical University I saw 422 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:07,300 that it is much more practical, it's more applied science 423 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:14,720 and I also found that the other students, my fellow students, 424 00:27:14,820 --> 00:27:16,220 had more practical experience. 425 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:20,760 So I had to do a lot of hard work in order to catch up. 426 00:27:20,860 --> 00:27:22,010 Yes. 427 00:27:23,860 --> 00:27:26,710 (Angela Merkel) I think that is something that only slowly improved 428 00:27:26,810 --> 00:27:28,090 in Germany as well. 429 00:27:28,190 --> 00:27:33,890 So we now do more practical, we have more practical aspects. 430 00:27:33,990 --> 00:27:39,090 So, in Brno, how do people talk about Europe? 431 00:27:39,190 --> 00:27:42,710 It's a very controversial issue, isn't it, in Czech Republic? 432 00:27:43,250 --> 00:27:45,800 (Change of speaker) It is difficult to say really. 433 00:27:45,900 --> 00:27:53,010 I know many people who are about my age, usually students, 434 00:27:53,110 --> 00:27:59,930 and they tend to like Europe. 435 00:28:00,030 --> 00:28:11,050 But the general mood in the Czech Republic is more complex. 436 00:28:14,070 --> 00:28:23,550 The Czechs tend to stand up against authority and I think, 437 00:28:23,650 --> 00:28:26,470 well, how should I put this, 438 00:28:26,570 --> 00:28:30,550 I think the EU could do better PR work in Czech Republic. 439 00:28:30,650 --> 00:28:32,190 That would help a lot. 440 00:28:32,290 --> 00:28:38,890 It would help people to really learn about what the EU does. 441 00:28:38,990 --> 00:28:42,430 It's not only that they create bicycle routes. 442 00:28:42,530 --> 00:28:46,630 It's also that they support human rights, 443 00:28:46,730 --> 00:28:49,270 that they make a lot of things possible and so forth. 444 00:28:49,350 --> 00:28:51,670 (Angela Merkel) Yes. 445 00:28:54,220 --> 00:28:57,760 I think in Germany we also have the situation 446 00:28:57,860 --> 00:29:01,340 where there is domestic policy issue. 447 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:06,300 And then you kind of blame it on the European commission, 448 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:08,930 you just say that the European Council 449 00:29:09,030 --> 00:29:11,260 and all this bureaucracy in Brussels. 450 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:15,760 I think it was the same situation in the UK before the referendum. 451 00:29:15,860 --> 00:29:18,220 Europe was being down talked, 452 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:24,390 it was the root of all evil and once you really understand the bureaucracy 453 00:29:24,490 --> 00:29:27,180 you find that Europe is made up of national states 454 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:32,420 which also means that the bureaucracy is created by the membered states. 455 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:42,090 So everybody who is in that bureaucracy, part of that bureaucracy, 456 00:29:42,190 --> 00:29:46,590 comes from a particular country and is instructed by that country. 457 00:29:46,690 --> 00:29:50,970 This is something that we should really talk about. 458 00:29:51,070 --> 00:29:54,800 So it's not good to simply blame everything on Europe 459 00:29:54,900 --> 00:29:56,640 when you have issues at home. 460 00:29:56,740 --> 00:29:59,340 Because at the end of the day, people won't understand 461 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,430 what is going on and they will talk Europe down. 462 00:30:02,780 --> 00:30:04,760 (Change of speaker) Yes. 463 00:30:04,950 --> 00:30:09,460 This is exactly what I feel is happening in the Czech Republic. 464 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:11,710 People say, well, the EU is coming in. 465 00:30:11,810 --> 00:30:17,510 And they are saying, you are only allowed to eat five dumplings, not six. 466 00:30:17,610 --> 00:30:26,130 And you can't have half a pint, you have to go to point 4 ml. 467 00:30:26,230 --> 00:30:29,460 Whatever, people who don't really understand a lot about this 468 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:31,390 and who haven't spent time abroad, 469 00:30:31,490 --> 00:30:35,920 for them the EU is really this bad, evil authority. 470 00:30:36,690 --> 00:30:42,650 (Angela Merkel) Yes, of course we talk about bottle sizes 471 00:30:42,740 --> 00:30:48,550 and so forth, there was of course some uniformity introduce 472 00:30:48,650 --> 00:30:52,600 because otherwise it's difficult to export beer for instance. 473 00:30:52,700 --> 00:30:57,840 So there are tendencies to actually harmonize things. 474 00:30:57,940 --> 00:31:01,010 In Germany, for instance, we have this beer purity law 475 00:31:01,110 --> 00:31:03,890 and this is also something we had our issues with. 476 00:31:03,990 --> 00:31:05,760 And you need to strike the right balance 477 00:31:05,860 --> 00:31:08,430 and you also need to take people's emotions seriously 478 00:31:08,530 --> 00:31:09,550 and give them time. 479 00:31:09,650 --> 00:31:12,090 (Moderator) I think this is a good time 480 00:31:12,190 --> 00:31:15,680 to bring Miss Ranquete on board. 481 00:31:15,780 --> 00:31:18,130 She studied in Strasbourg and Norway. 482 00:31:18,230 --> 00:31:23,010 And now she's going to Munich, Pisa and Karlsruhe. 483 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:28,970 Are you also an ambassador of the European Union? 484 00:31:29,070 --> 00:31:32,840 Do you think this is a way of overcoming prejudice? 485 00:31:34,070 --> 00:31:35,390 (Change of speaker) Hello. 486 00:31:35,490 --> 00:31:40,040 I think it's very important in order to understand Europe better 487 00:31:40,140 --> 00:31:41,800 to live in a lot of countries, 488 00:31:41,900 --> 00:31:43,880 that really helps to understand the EU. 489 00:31:43,980 --> 00:31:45,290 And it's important to me. 490 00:31:49,690 --> 00:31:52,760 (Moderator) With about the people you are close to, 491 00:31:52,860 --> 00:31:57,510 do they all have a positive view of the EU or are you the exception? 492 00:31:57,610 --> 00:31:59,550 (Change of speaker) Well, I think in general yes. 493 00:31:59,650 --> 00:32:01,930 There is a more positive view. 494 00:32:02,030 --> 00:32:09,300 At least if I think of my friends, the people that I met with. 495 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,920 Also in the Erasmus program, 496 00:32:13,020 --> 00:32:16,880 I also spent time at a university in Italy. 497 00:32:16,980 --> 00:32:18,720 There was also this positive attitude. 498 00:32:18,820 --> 00:32:22,430 You can make an exchange, go on an exchange program, 499 00:32:22,530 --> 00:32:23,840 you can cross the border. 500 00:32:23,940 --> 00:32:25,890 I am from Alsace. 501 00:32:25,990 --> 00:32:30,800 So, for me it's very easy to travel to Germany and back. 502 00:32:30,900 --> 00:32:35,310 It was very difficult for me during the pandemic 503 00:32:35,410 --> 00:32:39,060 because I couldn't meet my family and everything. 504 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:43,890 So this was the first time that I really felt that. 505 00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:47,920 (Angela Merkel) You have travelled to a lot of countries, 506 00:32:48,020 --> 00:32:52,480 do you always speak English or how do you talk to other people? 507 00:32:52,580 --> 00:32:55,270 (Change of speaker) English, German, Italian, 508 00:32:55,370 --> 00:32:57,230 I learned Italian in Italy. 509 00:32:58,030 --> 00:32:59,600 (Angela Merkel) Do you also speak Norwegian? 510 00:33:00,430 --> 00:33:03,090 (Change of speaker) Well, a little. 511 00:33:04,310 --> 00:33:07,220 But mainly English. 512 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:11,140 And Norwegians speak English very, very well. 513 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,930 They also teach English to a very high standard. 514 00:33:14,030 --> 00:33:17,370 All my courses were in English and it was perfect. 515 00:33:17,470 --> 00:33:19,830 They had teaching staff from all over the world, 516 00:33:19,930 --> 00:33:25,870 it was very interesting and very good for diversity. 517 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:32,790 (Angela Merkel) What do you see as the common ground 518 00:33:32,890 --> 00:33:35,450 between all these European cities that you travel, 519 00:33:35,550 --> 00:33:39,030 what makes them European, what would you like to see more? 520 00:33:39,130 --> 00:33:43,420 (Change of speaker) Well, I really like this idea of Europe 521 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,000 as a uniting factor. 522 00:33:46,100 --> 00:33:49,790 So we come together, we may spend our time differently, 523 00:33:49,890 --> 00:33:53,290 but we have similar values in terms of human rights, 524 00:33:53,390 --> 00:33:57,160 also the rule of law, legislation. 525 00:33:57,260 --> 00:34:00,040 So, we all have this common spirit 526 00:34:00,140 --> 00:34:05,040 and these shared values and this is I would like to retain. 527 00:34:05,140 --> 00:34:09,540 (Angela Merkel) Well, diversity is something that is very, very precious. 528 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:11,290 Isn't it? 529 00:34:11,390 --> 00:34:13,920 So, Emmanuel Macron, the French president, 530 00:34:14,020 --> 00:34:18,420 he also talks about languages. 531 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:22,760 He once said that language is always a window 532 00:34:22,860 --> 00:34:27,250 to the soul and to thinking, to one's way of thinking. 533 00:34:27,350 --> 00:34:34,540 And should not diminish this diversity. 534 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:36,380 Cuisine is another area. 535 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:41,000 We have a very diverse cuisine in Europe. 536 00:34:41,100 --> 00:34:44,400 (Change of speaker) Actually, it is very similar I should say. 537 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,920 Words, different ways of putting things 538 00:34:48,020 --> 00:34:51,830 but in the end with think the same. 539 00:34:51,930 --> 00:34:53,960 We may have a slightly different perspective 540 00:34:54,060 --> 00:34:56,300 but we often mean the same thing. 541 00:34:56,400 --> 00:35:02,650 There are also expressions in French that are the same as in Italian 542 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:07,320 and that's different with French and German. 543 00:35:07,420 --> 00:35:10,860 But Germans and Norwegians also share a lot of expressions. 544 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:12,180 (Angela Merkel) Well, French and Italian 545 00:35:12,260 --> 00:35:15,310 are of course both romantic languages and very similar. 546 00:35:15,410 --> 00:35:18,280 But let's look at debt. 547 00:35:18,380 --> 00:35:21,990 I can't remember what debt is in French. 548 00:35:22,090 --> 00:35:23,090 So, when there is -. 549 00:35:26,140 --> 00:35:28,370 (Change of speaker) Debt in French? 550 00:35:31,490 --> 00:35:34,730 I think that is „avoir". 551 00:35:34,830 --> 00:35:36,810 I'm not sure. 552 00:35:38,490 --> 00:35:41,520 Oh, you are talking about money. Debt? 553 00:35:44,130 --> 00:35:46,070 Because it can also mean culpability. 554 00:35:46,170 --> 00:35:47,560 Culpabilité. 555 00:35:48,170 --> 00:35:53,650 (Angela Merkel) But in German it's your fault and your indebted, 556 00:35:53,750 --> 00:35:56,240 I'm indebted to you. 557 00:35:56,340 --> 00:36:00,640 So we have one word for this and this is not the same French. 558 00:36:00,740 --> 00:36:10,130 So to be to blame and to assume debt, these are two different, 559 00:36:10,240 --> 00:36:11,690 completely two different words. 560 00:36:11,790 --> 00:36:17,810 And in German you have this both come together in the thought process. 561 00:36:18,210 --> 00:36:21,440 (Moderator) I would like to come back to one point 562 00:36:21,540 --> 00:36:24,440 that Miss Ranquete mentioned. 563 00:36:24,540 --> 00:36:26,530 Shared values and human rights. 564 00:36:26,630 --> 00:36:30,400 And I'd like to give the floor to Mr Sadeki 565 00:36:30,500 --> 00:36:34,110 who is studying in Frankfurt Oder 566 00:36:34,210 --> 00:36:39,940 and who is very committed to Polish German relations. 567 00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:43,940 Perhaps you can tell us more about the values 568 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:49,150 that you see as an uniting factor in this border region in Germany 569 00:36:49,250 --> 00:36:50,770 and Poland. 570 00:36:50,870 --> 00:36:55,590 And what do you think should Europe do 571 00:36:55,690 --> 00:36:59,150 in order to better communicate these values abroad? 572 00:36:59,250 --> 00:37:04,530 (Change of speaker) Well, first of all, hello Madame Chancellor. 573 00:37:04,630 --> 00:37:10,860 We live in this border region and we live Europe here. 574 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:17,570 Frankfurt Oder Słubice is a dual city, if you will. 575 00:37:18,330 --> 00:37:21,980 There is no real border in the city, 576 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,900 just cross the bridge and you are in a different country. 577 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,030 But there are problems. 578 00:37:28,240 --> 00:37:31,440 This is something I saw when I spent time abroad, 579 00:37:31,540 --> 00:37:33,690 at least that's my personal experience. 580 00:37:33,790 --> 00:37:38,980 And it's also been mentioned by someone else: it's nationalism. 581 00:37:39,270 --> 00:37:42,590 This is a problem in Poland as well 582 00:37:42,700 --> 00:37:49,110 but to my mind in this border region in particular, in this city 583 00:37:49,210 --> 00:37:52,360 where I study, it's not really an issue. 584 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,220 At least at this very small level 585 00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:59,510 we see that dialogue is continuing. 586 00:37:59,620 --> 00:38:06,900 And this is really important to remain interested in one another 587 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,860 and I think we also need to revive interest on national level, 588 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:12,690 between Poland and Germany. 589 00:38:12,790 --> 00:38:14,860 Because the focus has been lost. 590 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:18,530 It should be like Franko-German friendship. 591 00:38:18,630 --> 00:38:22,470 For the future of Europe it is important to also have 592 00:38:22,570 --> 00:38:26,100 to orient ourselves towards the East. 593 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:30,310 And I think it's important for Germany to work more closely with Poland. 594 00:38:30,410 --> 00:38:32,520 And to grow together. 595 00:38:32,620 --> 00:38:37,730 So that we can harness the opportunities that result from this. 596 00:38:39,050 --> 00:38:43,810 (Angela Merkel) Well, in general I would like to second this, 597 00:38:43,910 --> 00:38:45,890 even though it's not so easy at the moment 598 00:38:45,990 --> 00:38:47,520 at the highest political level. 599 00:38:47,620 --> 00:38:54,350 Because, well, because there is a little mistrust against Germany 600 00:38:54,450 --> 00:38:59,270 and so we need to talk more perhaps. 601 00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:05,720 And I think that the Eastern European countries, 602 00:39:05,820 --> 00:39:09,600 and of course Poland is a very large Eastern European country, 603 00:39:09,700 --> 00:39:20,310 they expect us to take their sensitivities more seriously. 604 00:39:20,410 --> 00:39:26,020 So they don't want to move into a fully decorated house 605 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:29,520 that others have prepared and they feel like they've been asked 606 00:39:29,620 --> 00:39:32,690 to move in and like their interior design 607 00:39:32,790 --> 00:39:34,800 and they feel that they have to say 608 00:39:34,890 --> 00:39:36,820 thank for giving us this furnished room. 609 00:39:36,910 --> 00:39:39,310 What they want to do is to shape Europe. 610 00:39:39,410 --> 00:39:42,810 And also bring their own ideas to it. 611 00:39:42,910 --> 00:39:45,230 I think this is highly justified. 612 00:39:45,330 --> 00:39:48,310 You see the same thing in Germany. 613 00:39:48,410 --> 00:39:53,810 So in the new German states, they also want their ideas heard. 614 00:39:57,350 --> 00:39:59,100 (Change of speaker) In the context of exchange 615 00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:02,500 and dialogue we already talked about the Erasmus project. 616 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:06,910 And you ask someone else what the strength and weaknesses were 617 00:40:07,010 --> 00:40:08,050 of this program. 618 00:40:08,170 --> 00:40:13,300 And I would like to add that from my point of view, it's a success story. 619 00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:18,810 So, it's working very well and the German academic exchange service 620 00:40:18,910 --> 00:40:22,400 is administering it very well. 621 00:40:22,500 --> 00:40:25,640 Since 2014 the program has been rolled out to schools. 622 00:40:25,740 --> 00:40:30,310 And I think that needs to be done, needs to be rolled out. 623 00:40:30,410 --> 00:40:33,350 Because when you've spend time abroad at 20, 624 00:40:33,450 --> 00:40:37,190 then it's usually the people who are already interested in Europe. 625 00:40:37,290 --> 00:40:40,690 And what I see in Poland is that there is a lot of nationalism. 626 00:40:40,790 --> 00:40:44,150 And young people simply aren't interested in going to Germany, 627 00:40:44,250 --> 00:40:46,730 going anywhere abroad. 628 00:40:46,830 --> 00:40:50,980 So the program should start at an earlier age, 629 00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:52,940 when people are still at school. 630 00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:55,190 This is very important from my point of view. 631 00:40:56,210 --> 00:40:57,430 (Angela Merkel) Okay. 632 00:40:57,530 --> 00:41:00,760 Do you have any other questions or comments on the future of Europe? 633 00:41:00,860 --> 00:41:02,640 Anything that's important to you? 634 00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:11,190 (Change of speaker) Well, I study at Viadrina in Frankfurt Oder. 635 00:41:11,290 --> 00:41:13,730 And there is one thing I am interested in. 636 00:41:13,830 --> 00:41:19,770 I read recently that Frankfurt Oder Słubice 637 00:41:19,870 --> 00:41:27,510 has or is about to apply for the Unity Centre. 638 00:41:27,610 --> 00:41:30,770 I would like to ask what exactly this means 639 00:41:30,870 --> 00:41:33,980 and what the requirements will be? 640 00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:39,260 Because in my opinion, we should really focus more 641 00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:43,890 on the east of Europe and really create fresh momentum. 642 00:41:43,990 --> 00:41:47,810 I really like the place where I am. 643 00:41:47,910 --> 00:41:51,510 So, I would really like to know what requirements would have to be met? 644 00:41:51,610 --> 00:41:56,980 (Angela Merkel) Well, we said that we wanted to select a place 645 00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:02,640 where can look at people's life stories, 646 00:42:02,740 --> 00:42:12,270 people who used to live in the GDR and who were then involved 647 00:42:12,370 --> 00:42:17,360 in Germanys reunification. 648 00:42:17,450 --> 00:42:23,230 But not only focus on this because we are all faced with transformations. 649 00:42:23,330 --> 00:42:26,140 So the Poles had to find their way to freedom. 650 00:42:26,240 --> 00:42:30,850 So that the people in the Balkans, the Czechs, the Slovaks, Slovenians, 651 00:42:30,950 --> 00:42:33,900 I don't want to give you the full list. 652 00:42:38,670 --> 00:42:40,430 So, what we want to do is, say, well, 653 00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:44,180 we've managed a lot of transformation but the world is changing. 654 00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:47,180 And young people in the Western world will also have to change 655 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:48,720 their way of life. 656 00:42:48,820 --> 00:42:52,610 Because of climate action, because of digitization and so forth. 657 00:42:52,710 --> 00:42:56,860 So the idea is to look at how people deal with transformation, 658 00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:02,230 when coal mining stops, when digitization means that jobs are lost, 659 00:43:02,330 --> 00:43:06,400 when older people have to keep learning all their live. 660 00:43:07,720 --> 00:43:10,730 And this is something that we will all experience. 661 00:43:10,830 --> 00:43:18,030 So the invitation is to look back and also to do this with a sense of pride, 662 00:43:18,130 --> 00:43:22,060 a peaceful revolution in the GDR and so forth. 663 00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:24,820 Of course with the support of the Solidarność, 664 00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:26,760 of the Prague Spring and so forth. 665 00:43:26,860 --> 00:43:29,980 But then, in the second step, we should also think about 666 00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:32,560 what we can learn from this for the future. 667 00:43:32,660 --> 00:43:36,070 Because we will keep having transformations processes. 668 00:43:36,170 --> 00:43:37,170 That's a fact. 669 00:43:37,250 --> 00:43:41,310 And we are very interested to see what applications 670 00:43:41,410 --> 00:43:44,690 we receive from the new German states. 671 00:43:44,790 --> 00:43:46,890 And if Frankfurt Oder wants to file an application, 672 00:43:46,990 --> 00:43:48,940 then we will have a very close look at it. 673 00:43:50,420 --> 00:43:53,860 Essentially, by the way, this won't be me looking at this. 674 00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:55,730 There will be a jury appointed 675 00:43:55,830 --> 00:44:00,230 and it will be experts who actually look at the applications. 676 00:44:02,310 --> 00:44:05,690 (Moderator) You also said that we need to look at 677 00:44:05,790 --> 00:44:08,530 what we've learned from the past and I would like to bring 678 00:44:08,630 --> 00:44:16,250 Mr Weikl in who is studying Law 679 00:44:16,340 --> 00:44:19,520 and who is spending time in Augsburg at present. 680 00:44:19,620 --> 00:44:22,050 And who is also looking at the Social Affairs. 681 00:44:22,150 --> 00:44:25,180 So from your point of view, where should the European Union 682 00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:32,940 be doing more externally in order to present and showcase its values. 683 00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:37,860 (Change of speaker) Do you mean in terms of foreign policy? 684 00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:39,020 (Moderator) Yes. 685 00:44:40,730 --> 00:44:46,280 (Change of speaker) That is a very complex question to start on. 686 00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:50,410 Well, in my opinion-. 687 00:44:56,290 --> 00:45:03,950 We trust dictatorships and regimes 688 00:45:04,050 --> 00:45:05,780 that are similar to dictatorships too much, 689 00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:09,400 we trust them too much and hope for the best. 690 00:45:09,500 --> 00:45:12,120 For instance, China, for decades they have promised 691 00:45:12,220 --> 00:45:15,100 to abide to human rights 692 00:45:15,180 --> 00:45:20,560 and they promised to stop their imperialistic moves. 693 00:45:20,650 --> 00:45:22,890 But they do the opposite. 694 00:45:22,990 --> 00:45:24,470 And they do it consistently. 695 00:45:24,570 --> 00:45:28,890 I think Europe is doing too little to oppose this. 696 00:45:28,970 --> 00:45:30,220 Germany too. 697 00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:36,020 And I think that economic interests are what guides us too much, 698 00:45:36,110 --> 00:45:38,890 also current economic interests 699 00:45:38,990 --> 00:45:41,470 rather than long-term economic interests 700 00:45:41,570 --> 00:45:44,890 and you've already mentioned that I focus on international law. 701 00:45:45,310 --> 00:45:52,840 Well, China, let's say has very unorthodox methods 702 00:45:52,940 --> 00:45:57,640 they are trying to reform international law unilaterally 703 00:45:57,740 --> 00:45:59,510 in the South China Sea, for instance. 704 00:45:59,610 --> 00:46:01,690 In a conflict with Taiwan. 705 00:46:01,770 --> 00:46:04,170 And in other areas as well. 706 00:46:05,530 --> 00:46:07,050 (Angela Merkel) This is true. 707 00:46:07,150 --> 00:46:10,680 This is also exactly what this is about. 708 00:46:10,780 --> 00:46:13,460 We are only strong if we speak with one voice 709 00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:17,300 and if you have a country like China or Russia for that matter, 710 00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:22,720 if you know you talk to them and if we talk to them only bilaterally, 711 00:46:22,820 --> 00:46:24,760 then each country will get a different answer 712 00:46:24,860 --> 00:46:26,470 and we won't be strong. 713 00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:35,090 In principle, we also need and want to work with countries 714 00:46:35,190 --> 00:46:38,530 whose social fabric is entirely different 715 00:46:38,610 --> 00:46:39,780 and social model is different. 716 00:46:39,870 --> 00:46:42,880 But we can't have anyone set the agenda saying 717 00:46:42,980 --> 00:46:45,680 what we can talk about and what we can't talk about. 718 00:46:45,780 --> 00:46:50,380 And we do criticize non-compliance with human rights. 719 00:46:50,470 --> 00:46:52,210 Uyghurs and so forth. 720 00:46:52,970 --> 00:46:57,380 But on the other hand, it's not always easy to raise these matters 721 00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:02,430 with China because they are very clear when they say 722 00:47:02,530 --> 00:47:04,550 this is a domestic affair. 723 00:47:04,650 --> 00:47:06,010 I disagree. 724 00:47:06,110 --> 00:47:08,930 We have a dissensus on this because I would say 725 00:47:09,030 --> 00:47:11,170 that human rights are not a domestic affair stop 726 00:47:11,290 --> 00:47:14,680 but there are many countries in the world that, from our point of view, 727 00:47:14,780 --> 00:47:18,180 don't really protect human rights as well as they should. 728 00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:22,260 And we need to be careful because if we only talk to countries 729 00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:25,980 that have at least our standards, then it would also be a difficult situation. 730 00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:29,140 And we can remember the times of the Cold War, 731 00:47:29,240 --> 00:47:33,980 when Europe, or when the EU did not comprise 732 00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:35,810 the Eastern European countries. 733 00:47:35,910 --> 00:47:38,890 And when Germany was still divided, 734 00:47:38,990 --> 00:47:43,930 we still kept the communication channels open. 735 00:47:44,030 --> 00:47:49,770 But you are right, there is a situation where we get it to dependency, 736 00:47:49,870 --> 00:47:52,500 then it's difficult and we need to think about 737 00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:56,970 what we can do in order not to be dependent. 738 00:47:57,070 --> 00:48:00,350 Because otherwise it will be easy to blackmail you, 739 00:48:00,450 --> 00:48:02,260 when you are in a situation of dependency. 740 00:48:02,340 --> 00:48:04,720 And this is why science and technology are so important. 741 00:48:04,810 --> 00:48:09,350 Because if we don't have that expertise and know how, then it's difficult. 742 00:48:09,450 --> 00:48:11,560 I am very proud that we were one of the countries 743 00:48:11,660 --> 00:48:16,390 that were involved in vaccine development, BioNTech. 744 00:48:16,490 --> 00:48:19,470 So we did not have to import all of our vaccines. 745 00:48:19,570 --> 00:48:25,890 Just imagine, if it had only been China and Russia 746 00:48:25,990 --> 00:48:29,100 that had developed vaccines rather than the US and Britain 747 00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:30,640 and Germany and so forth. 748 00:48:30,740 --> 00:48:33,850 So it's important to be strong on technology. 749 00:48:33,950 --> 00:48:35,300 So what was your experience? 750 00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:38,180 Because I think you spent time in Lithuania. 751 00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:40,550 So what did you learn, 752 00:48:40,650 --> 00:48:42,560 something that you didn't learn in Augsburg, 753 00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:44,500 Würzburg or wherever you were? 754 00:48:44,720 --> 00:48:50,680 (Change of speaker) Well, I used the opportunity 755 00:48:50,780 --> 00:48:53,390 to take classes that were not in German. 756 00:48:53,490 --> 00:49:00,680 So I improved my linguistic skills, my legal English in particular. 757 00:49:00,780 --> 00:49:04,560 And I think Erasmus was very important. 758 00:49:04,660 --> 00:49:09,550 It was important to see how much you have in common 759 00:49:09,650 --> 00:49:12,930 with young people from other European countries. 760 00:49:13,030 --> 00:49:15,880 And to see that you share the same interest 761 00:49:15,980 --> 00:49:20,800 and that you often have very similar ideas and outlooks. 762 00:49:20,900 --> 00:49:22,800 So it was a very interesting experience. 763 00:49:22,900 --> 00:49:29,350 And I had an opportunity to really learn more about international law 764 00:49:29,450 --> 00:49:32,980 and various specific aspects of European law, 765 00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:36,260 for instance European civil processes and so forth. 766 00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:39,100 Otherwise I probably wouldn't have been covered 767 00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:40,720 by my course in Germany. 768 00:49:40,820 --> 00:49:43,840 (Angela Merkel) And will you keep up any personal relations 769 00:49:43,940 --> 00:49:47,770 with people in Lithuania, beyond the Erasmus time 770 00:49:47,860 --> 00:49:49,710 or that will fade away? 771 00:49:51,210 --> 00:49:54,210 (Change of speaker) What was very interesting in Lithuania, 772 00:49:54,310 --> 00:49:57,340 I met some locals. 773 00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:03,290 But in Lithuania you also see how advantages of the EU 774 00:50:03,390 --> 00:50:05,190 can also turn into disadvantages. 775 00:50:05,290 --> 00:50:09,660 In Lithuania you have this phenomenon that highly skilled people 776 00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:12,250 like to go abroad. 777 00:50:12,350 --> 00:50:18,720 They used to go to the UK but also to Germany, Denmark and so forth. 778 00:50:18,830 --> 00:50:24,850 This has mostly to do with wage levels and quality of life. 779 00:50:24,970 --> 00:50:27,790 (Angela Merkel) Yes, this is a major problem: 780 00:50:27,890 --> 00:50:31,130 people leaving these countries. 781 00:50:31,230 --> 00:50:35,340 And this is why research, technology, 782 00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:38,000 science need to be strong there. 783 00:50:38,100 --> 00:50:42,960 So that young scientists have a chance to stay there and work there. 784 00:50:43,060 --> 00:50:45,210 We also saw this during the pandemic, in Poland 785 00:50:45,310 --> 00:50:49,120 it was a massive issue because so many doctors were working elsewhere 786 00:50:49,220 --> 00:50:50,290 in Europe. 787 00:50:50,370 --> 00:50:53,250 And Poland was suffering a shortage of doctors. 788 00:50:53,350 --> 00:50:55,710 This is something that many countries experience. 789 00:50:55,810 --> 00:50:58,380 And this is why we also support these countries 790 00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:01,210 with the cohesion and structural funds. 791 00:51:01,310 --> 00:51:04,620 So that they can raise their standards of living. 792 00:51:04,720 --> 00:51:09,750 So that it pays off for people to stay in these countries. 793 00:51:09,850 --> 00:51:12,750 It is very important for these countries to also have an opportunity. 794 00:51:12,850 --> 00:51:14,670 (Change of speaker) One thing I found was very interesting 795 00:51:14,770 --> 00:51:23,290 was that by the time they already are having the same situation 796 00:51:23,390 --> 00:51:27,080 because they get their doctors from even further abroad. 797 00:51:28,100 --> 00:51:32,450 (Angela Merkel) Yes, so you have the Ukrainian, the Kirgisian 798 00:51:32,550 --> 00:51:35,540 or whatever doctors, yes. 799 00:51:36,220 --> 00:51:43,710 And this is something we also see when we don't take care 800 00:51:43,810 --> 00:51:48,150 that the people can live in prosperity wherever they are in the world, 801 00:51:48,250 --> 00:51:57,270 then migration will become stronger, there will be more pressure. 802 00:51:57,360 --> 00:52:03,450 And China has 1.3 billion people. 803 00:52:03,550 --> 00:52:07,160 One thing that China has achieved, by all its faults, 804 00:52:07,260 --> 00:52:10,330 is to lift these people out of poverty. 805 00:52:10,430 --> 00:52:15,450 30, 40, 50 years ago China had millions of people 806 00:52:15,550 --> 00:52:19,990 who were starving or who were in bitter poverty. 807 00:52:20,090 --> 00:52:22,740 And China and many other Asian countries 808 00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:27,330 have managed to create prosperity. 809 00:52:27,430 --> 00:52:30,370 But of course there are difficulties. 810 00:52:30,470 --> 00:52:36,290 I think the moderator is telling me that I should not keep talking 811 00:52:36,390 --> 00:52:38,820 for too much longer. 812 00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:42,750 We had this very interesting discussion on China 813 00:52:42,850 --> 00:52:46,490 and people said that we should speak with one voice 814 00:52:46,590 --> 00:52:50,420 and be aware of economic strength. 815 00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:53,620 There is of course a European Foreign representative. 816 00:52:53,720 --> 00:52:58,580 So, do you have any idea of how Europe could further 817 00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:00,790 cement its economic power? 818 00:53:00,890 --> 00:53:03,700 (Change of speaker) I think this is another very complex question. 819 00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:06,700 In a first step, and please correct me if I'm wrong, 820 00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:11,240 but I think that most foreign policy decisions 821 00:53:11,330 --> 00:53:16,160 are based on the principle of-, 822 00:53:16,260 --> 00:53:20,720 well, everybody has to be at the same opinion. 823 00:53:20,830 --> 00:53:24,790 And this means that in a union, 824 00:53:24,890 --> 00:53:28,870 you will always have the interest of the majority that will count. 825 00:53:28,970 --> 00:53:38,990 And of course the European Union is, how should I put this, 826 00:53:39,090 --> 00:53:43,790 I think the European Union is the largest provider of ODA, 827 00:53:43,890 --> 00:53:46,490 of Official Development Assistance, 828 00:53:46,590 --> 00:53:51,040 but we should really look at what we spend the money for. 829 00:53:51,150 --> 00:53:57,850 It shouldn't end up financing wars or propping up dictatorships. 830 00:53:58,970 --> 00:54:04,240 And we also need to think about who we give this development aid to. 831 00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:10,580 (Angela Merkel) Well, it's also difficult because 832 00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:13,750 development aid should be for civil societies. 833 00:54:13,850 --> 00:54:16,460 So, we don't really give it just to states. 834 00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:20,990 We also give it to churches and other NGOs that do development work there. 835 00:54:21,090 --> 00:54:24,320 It's always a very difficult balancing act, 836 00:54:24,420 --> 00:54:28,330 who should I help and how and humanitarian aid is something 837 00:54:28,430 --> 00:54:31,540 that should not be dependent on government. 838 00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:38,650 So if someone is starving, then you need to find ways of helping them. 839 00:54:41,450 --> 00:54:43,040 We do this in Syria for instance. 840 00:54:43,140 --> 00:54:45,540 Even though we have nothing to do with Assad. 841 00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:47,290 These are very difficult balancing acts. 842 00:54:47,390 --> 00:54:49,620 But you are completely right. 843 00:54:49,720 --> 00:54:54,120 this principle that everybody has to be at the same opinion 844 00:54:54,220 --> 00:54:58,570 in foreign policy should perhaps be replaced by majority interest. 845 00:54:58,670 --> 00:55:03,250 Because if you have one issue where you have national interest, 846 00:55:03,350 --> 00:55:06,330 and then somebody overwrites you, it could be difficult to explain 847 00:55:06,430 --> 00:55:08,290 that to the people at home. 848 00:55:08,390 --> 00:55:13,120 (Moderator) Yes, this brings us to Ms. Peratoraki in Würzburg. 849 00:55:13,220 --> 00:55:17,940 She actually hails from the most southern point in Europe, 850 00:55:18,020 --> 00:55:20,860 from Gavdos in Greece. 851 00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:24,680 Ms. Peratoraki, what is-, 852 00:55:24,770 --> 00:55:28,870 When you talk to your friends or family about the European Union, 853 00:55:28,970 --> 00:55:30,820 what is their opinion of this? 854 00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:32,960 We live very close to the foreign borders. 855 00:55:33,060 --> 00:55:37,290 Which instructions should be strengthened so that people even there 856 00:55:37,390 --> 00:55:39,850 on this island, think that Europe represents their interests, 857 00:55:39,950 --> 00:55:42,910 their best interests as well? 858 00:55:43,010 --> 00:55:46,410 (Change of speaker) Hello! 859 00:55:47,670 --> 00:55:55,950 I feel as a European and I'm glad to be able to participate in this discussion. 860 00:56:00,260 --> 00:56:03,750 The idea of having Europe with freedom of movement, 861 00:56:03,850 --> 00:56:07,040 where you can work and travel and study where you like, 862 00:56:07,140 --> 00:56:09,770 is very important to me. 863 00:56:09,860 --> 00:56:13,040 For me Europe is a blessing. 864 00:56:17,130 --> 00:56:21,330 Because you have unlimited opportunities. 865 00:56:21,430 --> 00:56:25,670 There is great diversity, there is the possibility 866 00:56:25,770 --> 00:56:30,370 to partake in programs such as Erasmus and others, 867 00:56:30,470 --> 00:56:35,120 there is solidarity, there are also initiatives. 868 00:56:35,220 --> 00:56:38,990 But all these programs and initiatives make it possible 869 00:56:39,090 --> 00:56:43,120 to experience Europe and to understand it better 870 00:56:43,220 --> 00:56:45,580 and to discover it for yourself. 871 00:56:46,460 --> 00:56:54,110 As you said earlier, I'm from the southernmost point of Europe. 872 00:56:56,270 --> 00:57:05,340 And for me this is a unique opportunity to live there. 873 00:57:05,550 --> 00:57:11,360 I would hope for a Europe that is more democratic, 874 00:57:11,460 --> 00:57:13,850 more free with more tolerance. 875 00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:18,360 (Angela Merkel) How many people live on Gavdos, 876 00:57:18,460 --> 00:57:20,990 on this island, how large is this island? 877 00:57:22,500 --> 00:57:25,330 (Change of speaker) It's not big, it's actually very small. 878 00:57:27,430 --> 00:57:29,030 There is 40 of us. 879 00:57:29,130 --> 00:57:34,030 (Angela Merkel) 40? Okay. Well, this is a village really. 880 00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:35,640 (Change of speaker) Yes. 881 00:57:36,380 --> 00:57:40,490 (Angela Merkel) What's the closest island that's a little bigger? 882 00:57:40,590 --> 00:57:41,890 (Change of speaker) Crete. 883 00:57:41,980 --> 00:57:44,510 (Angela Merkel) Crete, okay. 884 00:57:46,250 --> 00:57:48,900 If someone had asked me, what's the southernmost point in Europe, 885 00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:50,240 I would have been wrong. 886 00:57:50,340 --> 00:57:51,860 I would have said Malta. 887 00:57:51,970 --> 00:57:56,190 I would have thought this was the southernmost point. 888 00:57:56,290 --> 00:58:01,310 (Change of speaker) Well, I think to my knowledge, 889 00:58:01,410 --> 00:58:02,900 Gavdos is the southernmost point. 890 00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:04,700 (Angela Merkel) Oh, I won't say anything against this. 891 00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:07,560 I'll took a look at the map later on. 892 00:58:10,150 --> 00:58:13,620 What do people in Gavdos say about Europe? 893 00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:15,530 You had a difficult time in Greece. 894 00:58:15,630 --> 00:58:19,400 I was not really a popular person in Greece. 895 00:58:19,500 --> 00:58:20,780 People criticized me. 896 00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:23,750 So, be honest, what do people say? 897 00:58:29,130 --> 00:58:33,910 (Change of speaker) For me, Europe has been with me all my life. 898 00:58:37,530 --> 00:58:40,560 There have always been development programs, 899 00:58:40,660 --> 00:58:44,040 even in this small village. 900 00:58:44,170 --> 00:58:50,770 They were streets build or supported by the EU. 901 00:58:59,600 --> 00:59:05,030 And of course you can be of different opinions on almost everything. 902 00:59:05,130 --> 00:59:14,580 But I think the European Union is very important. 903 00:59:19,910 --> 00:59:27,020 (Angela Merkel) And what would you hope for Europe for the future? 904 00:59:29,810 --> 00:59:37,600 (Change of speaker) Well, there are so many different opportunities. 905 00:59:38,710 --> 00:59:45,120 And I hope that we will continue 906 00:59:45,220 --> 00:59:48,530 to broaden the possibilities that already exist. 907 00:59:48,630 --> 00:59:50,120 (Moderator) Well, thank you! 908 00:59:50,630 --> 00:59:56,500 We had already talked about the European Union and China. 909 00:59:56,600 --> 01:00:00,620 And the European Union and its southern neighbours. 910 01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:05,330 Perhaps this is a good moment to bring in Ms. Bartkute 911 01:00:05,430 --> 01:00:07,370 who lives in Karlshorst. 912 01:00:07,470 --> 01:00:11,170 But who hails from Lithuania and studies 913 01:00:11,270 --> 01:00:14,160 at the Berlin Humboldt University. 914 01:00:14,260 --> 01:00:16,670 She studies History. 915 01:00:16,750 --> 01:00:18,410 MS. Bartkute, 916 01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:24,240 you're from Lithuania, so what is your view on EU-Russian relations 917 01:00:24,330 --> 01:00:27,160 and how might this differ from somebody's experience 918 01:00:27,250 --> 01:00:29,600 who is in Germany? 919 01:00:30,170 --> 01:00:32,620 (Change of speaker) Hello, good afternoon, I am very pleased 920 01:00:32,720 --> 01:00:35,580 to be with you here today and to be able to talk to you. 921 01:00:35,680 --> 01:00:39,210 I think that this is indeed a very topical issue. 922 01:00:39,310 --> 01:00:45,300 We all are aware of the fact that Ms. Merkel suggested a few days ago 923 01:00:45,390 --> 01:00:49,840 that a meeting ought to be organized 924 01:00:49,940 --> 01:00:54,190 and the essential Eastern European countries were against this. 925 01:00:54,270 --> 01:00:59,600 Among them also Lithuania and that is a symbolic-, 926 01:00:59,680 --> 01:01:06,790 in a way it's a symbol of the sort of different relationship 927 01:01:06,890 --> 01:01:10,420 and the different vantage point between us and between you 928 01:01:10,520 --> 01:01:15,160 as far as our views on a meeting with Russia is concerned. 929 01:01:15,260 --> 01:01:18,080 And that is a result of different history. 930 01:01:19,710 --> 01:01:26,830 We, I think, were very much, as you know, part of the Russian Empire, 931 01:01:26,930 --> 01:01:29,460 later on we were occupied by the Soviet Union 932 01:01:29,550 --> 01:01:35,320 and that has a lot to do with this distress 933 01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:38,070 we still have with regard to Russia. 934 01:01:39,040 --> 01:01:41,910 What happened in the past five years, 935 01:01:42,010 --> 01:01:46,620 I think the crisis in the Ukraine and the war in the Ukraine 936 01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:52,110 obviously contributed to this view and formed this view. 937 01:01:53,350 --> 01:01:57,810 I would like to remind all of us how this all started. 938 01:01:57,890 --> 01:02:01,050 The then Ukrainian president had to come 939 01:02:01,130 --> 01:02:04,290 to Vilnius in order to sign a document, 940 01:02:04,390 --> 01:02:05,750 he didn't do this. 941 01:02:05,850 --> 01:02:13,460 And then that was in a way the trigger of the events in Kiev, 942 01:02:13,560 --> 01:02:17,660 subsequently, and Lithuania was, and I would still say, continues to be 943 01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:21,330 one of the best friends of Ukraine. 944 01:02:22,020 --> 01:02:27,040 We very much support what Ukraine is doing, the president, 945 01:02:27,140 --> 01:02:32,790 and I know that Dalia Grybauskaitė, Ms. Merkel knows her very well. 946 01:02:32,890 --> 01:02:37,080 A book was written about her, the then president 947 01:02:37,170 --> 01:02:38,760 she no longer is the president. 948 01:02:38,850 --> 01:02:42,980 But last week she was in the Ukraine, she continues to be in contact 949 01:02:43,100 --> 01:02:45,630 with Ukrainians. 950 01:02:45,730 --> 01:02:54,540 She also-, our present government head of the state, 951 01:02:54,630 --> 01:02:55,880 is nurturing those relationships. 952 01:02:55,960 --> 01:02:58,830 And I think German like a little bit 953 01:02:58,920 --> 01:03:02,140 that feeling of solidarity with Ukraine. 954 01:03:02,230 --> 01:03:08,310 I think that, also with regards the historical memory, 955 01:03:08,390 --> 01:03:11,190 there was an initiative. 956 01:03:11,780 --> 01:03:14,580 One wanted the German Bundestag to recognize 957 01:03:14,680 --> 01:03:19,410 an acknowledge that Holodomor was also a genocide 958 01:03:19,510 --> 01:03:22,170 perpetrated against the Ukrainian people. 959 01:03:22,270 --> 01:03:24,500 The Bundestag did not do so. 960 01:03:24,600 --> 01:03:26,710 And one of the reasons it is said, 961 01:03:26,810 --> 01:03:30,460 is that Germany does not wish to, 962 01:03:30,560 --> 01:03:36,000 well, in a way cause something that would be detrimental 963 01:03:36,100 --> 01:03:37,750 to the relationship with Russia. 964 01:03:37,850 --> 01:03:42,080 And I think that is also a little bit emblematic 965 01:03:42,180 --> 01:03:44,870 of the current policy towards Russia. 966 01:03:44,970 --> 01:03:48,190 You are not really keeping this historical legacy alive. 967 01:03:48,640 --> 01:03:50,960 (Angela Merkel) Thank you very much for describing this. 968 01:03:51,060 --> 01:03:53,630 I think it's a very good description of the current situation 969 01:03:53,730 --> 01:03:57,460 but I think right now this seems to be a misunderstanding here. 970 01:03:57,560 --> 01:04:00,750 You know we are friends of Ukraine as well, 971 01:04:00,850 --> 01:04:04,920 irrespective of what the Holodomor is labelled „genocide“ 972 01:04:05,020 --> 01:04:08,210 or a horrific event. 973 01:04:08,310 --> 01:04:12,790 I think one has to be very, very careful as regards the term genocide. 974 01:04:12,890 --> 01:04:14,320 I think in the former Soviet Union, 975 01:04:14,410 --> 01:04:21,400 there were many, many events apart from Holodomor 976 01:04:21,510 --> 01:04:23,630 and this crime perpetrated against Ukraine. 977 01:04:23,730 --> 01:04:28,930 If you look for example at the settlement of ethnic minorities 978 01:04:29,030 --> 01:04:33,730 of nations also what Ukraine had to experience. 979 01:04:33,830 --> 01:04:38,600 So there was a certain reservation with regard to labelling it „genocide“. 980 01:04:38,700 --> 01:04:43,890 Not only because of the state of relations with Russia. 981 01:04:43,990 --> 01:04:49,350 I have always been someone together with all of the French presidents, 982 01:04:49,450 --> 01:04:51,360 who were in office during this period of time, 983 01:04:51,450 --> 01:04:55,750 to keep up this dialogue with Russia. 984 01:04:55,830 --> 01:04:58,130 But also to stand up for Ukrainian interests. 985 01:04:58,220 --> 01:05:01,120 There is no doubt at all that this is indeed a crime, 986 01:05:01,220 --> 01:05:02,820 an international crime would happen there, 987 01:05:02,920 --> 01:05:06,420 with the annexation of Crimea and the violation of international law 988 01:05:06,510 --> 01:05:10,870 And people who can only live there in these areas that are occupied now. 989 01:05:10,950 --> 01:05:13,230 In Donezk and so on. 990 01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:17,320 And then keeping people who are only stationed there 991 01:05:17,400 --> 01:05:21,010 because they are fed and nurtured and supported by Russia. 992 01:05:21,090 --> 01:05:22,120 Then Transnistria, 993 01:05:22,230 --> 01:05:26,930 all of those frozen conflicts, the former Republics 994 01:05:27,030 --> 01:05:30,890 of the then Soviet Union have developed into democracies. 995 01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:35,880 And still are entangled if you like, in this historic kinds. 996 01:05:35,980 --> 01:05:41,330 You know that obviously at that time, the then president from the Ukraine 997 01:05:41,440 --> 01:05:47,260 was under pressure, wasn't able to sign this act of accession 998 01:05:47,360 --> 01:05:48,680 at that time. 999 01:05:48,780 --> 01:05:53,000 And then the people rose in defiance against Russia 1000 01:05:53,100 --> 01:05:55,020 and also against their then government. 1001 01:05:55,120 --> 01:05:57,290 I think that we ought to talk to Putin, 1002 01:05:57,400 --> 01:05:59,690 the American president too talks to Putin. 1003 01:05:59,790 --> 01:06:05,480 These are not talks that say we reward the state of affair 1004 01:06:05,570 --> 01:06:06,580 between our countries. 1005 01:06:06,690 --> 01:06:09,470 But it is the knowledge that we as Europe are stronger, 1006 01:06:09,580 --> 01:06:11,500 when we come with a common forth position, 1007 01:06:11,600 --> 01:06:14,760 where we say, well, this is hybrid war, 1008 01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:17,060 these are crime against humanity, 1009 01:06:17,140 --> 01:06:21,940 you killed someone in cold blood in the Tiergarten, 1010 01:06:22,020 --> 01:06:24,860 you are supporting ultra nationalist parties. 1011 01:06:24,950 --> 01:06:28,820 That is something that we need to bring together, 1012 01:06:28,900 --> 01:06:31,990 we need to discuss this and we all need to speak with 1013 01:06:32,090 --> 01:06:34,870 one and the same voice and send the same message to Russian president. 1014 01:06:34,970 --> 01:06:37,760 And tell him, if we want have a good relationship, 1015 01:06:37,850 --> 01:06:40,940 we need to overcome this, that only the American president 1016 01:06:41,040 --> 01:06:42,290 is in a position to do that. 1017 01:06:42,390 --> 01:06:43,390 I don't think so. 1018 01:06:43,430 --> 01:06:44,830 I think, we too, can be strong. 1019 01:06:44,930 --> 01:06:46,910 But as you say, we still mistrust each other. 1020 01:06:47,010 --> 01:06:48,080 A little bit. 1021 01:06:48,180 --> 01:06:49,660 And this is something we need to overcome, 1022 01:06:49,760 --> 01:06:54,160 so that we can present our interests, our values 1023 01:06:54,260 --> 01:06:55,740 in a strong and conservative manner. 1024 01:06:55,840 --> 01:06:57,280 If we don't do this, then president Putin 1025 01:06:57,370 --> 01:06:59,970 is not going to take us as seriously as he should. 1026 01:07:00,070 --> 01:07:07,060 Because we have very good arguments, as criticism leveled towards Russia. 1027 01:07:08,120 --> 01:07:10,200 (Moderator) From a historical perspective, 1028 01:07:10,300 --> 01:07:14,200 do you have wishes that the European Union ought to fulfil 1029 01:07:14,300 --> 01:07:17,030 in order to stand up for these European values, 1030 01:07:17,130 --> 01:07:20,200 much more strongly vis-à -vis Russia? 1031 01:07:20,970 --> 01:07:23,490 (Change of speaker) Well, maybe not only as regards Russia 1032 01:07:23,590 --> 01:07:25,030 but on the whole. 1033 01:07:25,120 --> 01:07:33,530 I liked it very much how you compared the European Union with a home, 1034 01:07:33,630 --> 01:07:36,780 a house, the countries. 1035 01:07:36,880 --> 01:07:44,450 That make up the European Union in 2004 and joined also in 2004 later. 1036 01:07:48,120 --> 01:07:51,370 They joined you because of this experience of oppression 1037 01:07:51,470 --> 01:07:56,910 because of the limited possibilities imposed upon them on their region, 1038 01:07:57,010 --> 01:08:02,830 their traditions, on their languages that they were allowed to speak. 1039 01:08:02,920 --> 01:08:06,330 I think that this is why for us in central eastern Europe 1040 01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:12,500 it is so important that this diversity is actually filled with life. 1041 01:08:12,590 --> 01:08:15,900 And this diversity made of different nationalities, 1042 01:08:16,000 --> 01:08:20,240 of these different cultures and they should remain as they are. 1043 01:08:20,340 --> 01:08:23,120 I don't think it would be interesting for us. 1044 01:08:23,220 --> 01:08:24,940 We couldn't speak about diversity 1045 01:08:25,040 --> 01:08:27,700 if we were all speaking the same language, 1046 01:08:27,800 --> 01:08:31,690 had the same religion, had the same cultural traditions. 1047 01:08:31,790 --> 01:08:35,950 So as you said too, perhaps it's a little misunderstanding 1048 01:08:36,050 --> 01:08:38,360 of the central-east-European countries. 1049 01:08:42,090 --> 01:08:47,070 In a way, a feeling that they don't seem to be fully understood 1050 01:08:47,170 --> 01:08:50,160 by the Western member states of the European union. 1051 01:08:50,260 --> 01:08:53,660 And this is why for example, 1052 01:08:57,210 --> 01:09:06,200 I saw for example incitement against Hungary and Poland in your media. 1053 01:09:06,300 --> 01:09:08,160 (Angela Merkel) Incitement in what sense? 1054 01:09:08,580 --> 01:09:15,280 (Change of speaker) Well, you see politics, 1055 01:09:15,380 --> 01:09:18,650 political measures that are pursued here is labelled 1056 01:09:18,750 --> 01:09:26,200 as in a way as something that hungs back to the past. 1057 01:09:26,280 --> 01:09:32,200 Then this letter that was written against these laws in Hungary, 1058 01:09:32,300 --> 01:09:36,840 there was on one page, where the country said, sign that. 1059 01:09:36,940 --> 01:09:39,680 And then only other page there was a list of those countries 1060 01:09:39,770 --> 01:09:41,550 that have not signed this photo. 1061 01:09:41,630 --> 01:09:48,450 Two different groups and in a way that seems like, 1062 01:09:48,550 --> 01:09:51,490 I wouldn´t say discrimination, but it is almost: 1063 01:09:51,590 --> 01:09:54,900 look at that, these countries are old-fashioned, 1064 01:09:55,000 --> 01:09:56,770 they don't stand up for our values 1065 01:09:56,870 --> 01:10:00,990 and that sort of comments that you could read. 1066 01:10:01,090 --> 01:10:04,340 They only joined the European Union because they wanted the money 1067 01:10:04,450 --> 01:10:09,480 but they don't want to adopt our ideology. 1068 01:10:09,580 --> 01:10:16,520 But what is often forgotten is that when Lithuania joined in 2004, 1069 01:10:16,620 --> 01:10:20,570 you know probably better than anyone, 1070 01:10:20,670 --> 01:10:23,230 because you have been Chancellor, through this time, 1071 01:10:23,330 --> 01:10:26,890 that the European Union that existed 2004 is not the same 1072 01:10:26,990 --> 01:10:33,070 as what we have in 2021. 1073 01:10:33,170 --> 01:10:36,880 There had been many factors come into place. 1074 01:10:36,980 --> 01:10:40,270 The refugee crises for example, the crisis in Ukraine. 1075 01:10:40,370 --> 01:10:45,980 So, when we joined the European Union, we didn't know what to expect. 1076 01:10:46,790 --> 01:10:47,790 (Angela Merkel) Yes. 1077 01:10:47,880 --> 01:10:51,020 But I would hold that the others also didn't know what to expect. 1078 01:10:51,120 --> 01:10:54,570 I mean, we too, when I became Chancellor, 1079 01:10:54,670 --> 01:10:56,480 I wasn't aware of what expected me. 1080 01:10:56,560 --> 01:10:59,590 And some of those crisis, quite frankly I could have done without, 1081 01:10:59,710 --> 01:11:02,900 but when we are united in one Europe, 1082 01:11:03,000 --> 01:11:06,650 we also have to find one uniform answer to this. 1083 01:11:06,750 --> 01:11:09,690 What's happening now in Lithuania is that basically 1084 01:11:09,790 --> 01:11:13,770 Lukaschenko is transporting refugees that come from Baghdad, 1085 01:11:13,870 --> 01:11:18,020 from Istanbul, to the border and they simply cross the border. 1086 01:11:18,120 --> 01:11:19,820 He is using that as an instrument. 1087 01:11:19,910 --> 01:11:23,670 At Lithuania, I am sure, also would wish us to support them 1088 01:11:23,750 --> 01:11:26,690 in this situation, would wish us to talk to Turkey, 1089 01:11:26,790 --> 01:11:31,310 to talk to Baghdad, to tell them this is not acceptable, 1090 01:11:31,410 --> 01:11:33,650 don't allow these people to board the planes 1091 01:11:33,750 --> 01:11:36,480 because there is no way that you can talk about this with Lukaschenko. 1092 01:11:36,580 --> 01:11:42,000 And during the refugee crisis, I was sometimes wondering, 1093 01:11:42,100 --> 01:11:46,450 why nobody asked how does Greece fair in this crisis. 1094 01:11:46,550 --> 01:11:49,360 People were just saying, Germany wants refugees, 1095 01:11:49,460 --> 01:11:52,660 if they want to have refugees, then take them. 1096 01:11:52,760 --> 01:11:54,190 But this was not the case. 1097 01:11:54,290 --> 01:12:00,690 We said we cannot allow Greece to completely be left in the large. 1098 01:12:00,790 --> 01:12:03,530 Then I felt alone. 1099 01:12:03,630 --> 01:12:04,980 Not Lithuania. 1100 01:12:05,080 --> 01:12:08,320 Lithuania also always helped us but Hungary for example simply said, 1101 01:12:08,420 --> 01:12:11,700 we are not taking a single refugee. 1102 01:12:11,790 --> 01:12:15,990 I can understand that when you have very many but in this case, 1103 01:12:16,090 --> 01:12:17,450 they had not a single one. 1104 01:12:17,570 --> 01:12:21,830 And remember, obviously this was not good, 1105 01:12:21,930 --> 01:12:28,200 we saw this card which is very much divisive kind of approach 1106 01:12:28,300 --> 01:12:30,990 to the matter showing on the one hand signs the letter 1107 01:12:31,090 --> 01:12:32,390 and who doesn't. 1108 01:12:32,490 --> 01:12:36,060 I would say that Mayor of Budapest for example thinks a little differently 1109 01:12:36,160 --> 01:12:37,170 than Viktor Orbán. 1110 01:12:37,270 --> 01:12:40,920 There are also different views in Hungary about this matter. 1111 01:12:41,020 --> 01:12:42,350 And different views in the other countries. 1112 01:12:42,450 --> 01:12:45,840 But there is something that we should not overlook 1113 01:12:45,940 --> 01:12:47,180 and it's very important: 1114 01:12:47,280 --> 01:12:51,550 For 70 years, or longer, you had no possibility, 1115 01:12:51,650 --> 01:12:54,680 as we know from the GDR, no possibility 1116 01:12:54,780 --> 01:12:58,190 to actually freely speak your language, 1117 01:12:58,280 --> 01:13:01,240 freely practice your cultural traditions 1118 01:13:01,320 --> 01:13:06,470 and live your political ideas. 1119 01:13:06,550 --> 01:13:08,200 But if this was suppressed- 1120 01:13:08,280 --> 01:13:12,210 Whenever obviously you wanted to have a little bit of time, 1121 01:13:12,310 --> 01:13:15,120 all of these new things that come from Brussels, I understand, 1122 01:13:15,200 --> 01:13:18,550 is something where you say, let us give us a little bit more time. 1123 01:13:18,660 --> 01:13:23,510 In Spain for example, people these days deal more with what refugees 1124 01:13:23,610 --> 01:13:26,560 are going to come from Morocco tomorrow, what's happening there. 1125 01:13:30,400 --> 01:13:32,630 And it's interesting also to see, someone said, 1126 01:13:32,730 --> 01:13:34,300 we have to be more European, 1127 01:13:34,400 --> 01:13:41,030 but we don't really have a European audience, a European public 1128 01:13:41,120 --> 01:13:42,280 as it were. 1129 01:13:42,360 --> 01:13:44,170 There are very, very few countries 1130 01:13:44,270 --> 01:13:47,470 which share the same sort of headlines every day. 1131 01:13:47,570 --> 01:13:52,890 And because people in their own country tend to have one individual headline 1132 01:13:52,990 --> 01:13:54,920 that is very important to them domestically. 1133 01:13:55,020 --> 01:13:57,330 But it's not necessarily something that people 1134 01:13:57,430 --> 01:14:01,090 in Spain or in Lithuania or in Portugal talk about at one and the same time. 1135 01:14:01,190 --> 01:14:05,180 So there's a lot of differences still, what seems to domestic interest. 1136 01:14:05,280 --> 01:14:08,840 And here, Europe is not really practiced or lived, 1137 01:14:08,940 --> 01:14:11,180 so people then come to Brussels 1138 01:14:11,280 --> 01:14:13,380 and they come with their own domestic issues. 1139 01:14:13,480 --> 01:14:16,550 And then, all of a sudden, you have to forge one common opinion. 1140 01:14:16,650 --> 01:14:19,800 So it's very much an uphill battle. 1141 01:14:19,890 --> 01:14:24,720 (Moderator) Mr. Weikl raised-, wants to take the floor on Hungary. 1142 01:14:24,820 --> 01:14:27,350 (Change of speaker) I just wanted to mention 1143 01:14:27,450 --> 01:14:31,100 that Ms. Bartkute said that the Eastern European countries 1144 01:14:31,200 --> 01:14:35,700 didn't know what was coming what they had to expect. 1145 01:14:35,800 --> 01:14:38,380 I cannot share this view. 1146 01:14:38,480 --> 01:14:42,090 This is after all a treaty a very comprehensive treaty, 1147 01:14:42,190 --> 01:14:45,930 there is a charter of basic rights, European Charta of basic rights 1148 01:14:46,030 --> 01:14:48,130 and all of the member states signed it. 1149 01:14:48,230 --> 01:14:54,180 All of them signed up to it as it were and said, we are committed to this. 1150 01:14:54,280 --> 01:14:56,970 So against this background, we didn't know 1151 01:14:57,070 --> 01:14:59,760 and in a way this is Anti-Eastern European, 1152 01:14:59,860 --> 01:15:01,720 is something that I cannot agree with. 1153 01:15:01,820 --> 01:15:05,290 Because if I don't want to fulfil a contract or a treaty, 1154 01:15:05,380 --> 01:15:06,540 I shouldn't sign it. 1155 01:15:06,620 --> 01:15:10,840 It's almost as if I had sort of signed the contract to buy something 1156 01:15:10,940 --> 01:15:13,040 and then I say, well, I signed the contract 1157 01:15:13,130 --> 01:15:14,790 but I'm not going to pay for it. 1158 01:15:15,510 --> 01:15:19,060 (Angela Merkel) Well, I understood it somewhat differently. 1159 01:15:19,160 --> 01:15:22,260 When the joined in 2004, the Lithuanians, 1160 01:15:22,360 --> 01:15:27,930 they probably did not expect this huge crisis to come up. 1161 01:15:28,030 --> 01:15:33,270 The question is, could for example the global financial crisis 1162 01:15:33,370 --> 01:15:36,140 have been mastered better, had we not had Europe? 1163 01:15:36,240 --> 01:15:39,800 Would we have advantages if we didn't have the Euro? 1164 01:15:39,910 --> 01:15:45,840 You cannot have the advantages and then allow only a few others 1165 01:15:45,940 --> 01:15:46,970 to solve the problems. 1166 01:15:47,070 --> 01:15:51,090 And you yourself are not ready to, well, 1167 01:15:51,190 --> 01:15:55,350 work for this common currency for example and stand up for it as it were. 1168 01:15:55,830 --> 01:16:00,220 At the refugee issue, well, we all very much were 1169 01:16:00,320 --> 01:16:01,510 put under pressure by this. 1170 01:16:01,610 --> 01:16:04,180 Each and every member country. 1171 01:16:04,280 --> 01:16:07,380 And we all know, there were very lively, very heated, 1172 01:16:07,490 --> 01:16:10,630 very controversial debates in all of the member countries. 1173 01:16:10,740 --> 01:16:12,770 But that is something where I would say, 1174 01:16:12,870 --> 01:16:16,310 yes, when you decide become a member of the European Union, 1175 01:16:16,410 --> 01:16:21,390 will also have to, that's what I always say to my interlocutors, 1176 01:16:21,490 --> 01:16:25,490 my partners as the head of state in government, 1177 01:16:25,570 --> 01:16:30,100 once I live in Europe and I share this political life, 1178 01:16:30,200 --> 01:16:35,350 then I expect from another Prime Minister of another country, 1179 01:16:35,450 --> 01:16:38,160 that he or she understands my problem 1180 01:16:38,270 --> 01:16:44,100 as he or she can understand that I also put myself in his or her shoes 1181 01:16:44,200 --> 01:16:47,930 and walk round in them a little bit and say, what is your problem. 1182 01:16:48,030 --> 01:16:52,260 If every day ten thousand refugees arrive on Greece's shores, 1183 01:16:52,360 --> 01:16:56,610 I cannot simply close my eyes to that and say, your problem. 1184 01:16:56,700 --> 01:17:01,720 If I wish to live in a Schengen area, if I wish to live and have freedom 1185 01:17:01,820 --> 01:17:04,180 of movement, then I have to work on this. 1186 01:17:04,280 --> 01:17:07,860 And migration unfortunately, it's a very, very sad issue, 1187 01:17:07,950 --> 01:17:13,030 we still do not have a common European policy of this. 1188 01:17:13,120 --> 01:17:16,430 Each and everyone hopes that they will not have their problem all of a sudden, 1189 01:17:16,530 --> 01:17:18,350 Lithuania has this problem. 1190 01:17:18,450 --> 01:17:19,490 They did not expect to have that. 1191 01:17:19,590 --> 01:17:22,000 Norway, for example, that is not a member of the European Union, 1192 01:17:22,100 --> 01:17:23,520 had this all of a sudden as well. 1193 01:17:23,620 --> 01:17:26,150 Because the Russians all of a sudden sent refugees to them. 1194 01:17:26,250 --> 01:17:29,610 And you have to find solutions, common solutions, 1195 01:17:29,710 --> 01:17:32,320 for such tricky issues as well. 1196 01:17:32,420 --> 01:17:36,730 (Moderator) Maybe that's a good moment 1197 01:17:36,830 --> 01:17:41,780 to get Ms. Saton on to the floor. 1198 01:17:41,880 --> 01:17:44,980 She was born in Poland but is also familiar with Switzerland 1199 01:17:45,080 --> 01:17:46,590 because she lived there. 1200 01:17:46,690 --> 01:17:51,320 If you would say, well, how should this European Union develop, 1201 01:17:51,420 --> 01:17:53,310 how should it contend with these conflicts, 1202 01:17:53,410 --> 01:17:56,690 what do you think ought to be Europe's position to the outside world? 1203 01:17:56,780 --> 01:17:57,780 (Change of speaker) Thank you very much. 1204 01:17:57,780 --> 01:17:59,560 I actually wanted to ask for the floor, 1205 01:17:59,660 --> 01:18:03,440 thank you very much for inviting me to be able to join you. 1206 01:18:03,540 --> 01:18:07,810 I thought this was a very, very interesting debate. 1207 01:18:07,910 --> 01:18:10,350 I'd like to take up the last point: 1208 01:18:10,920 --> 01:18:17,320 I think it's very good that the European member states 1209 01:18:17,420 --> 01:18:21,570 commit themselves to act in the common interest 1210 01:18:21,670 --> 01:18:23,520 of the European Union by joining. 1211 01:18:23,620 --> 01:18:26,110 And of course, you will never know exactly 1212 01:18:26,210 --> 01:18:28,940 what sort of crisis looms on the horizon. 1213 01:18:29,040 --> 01:18:34,650 But particularly as regards an issue that I find to be very important, 1214 01:18:34,750 --> 01:18:37,980 for example climate protection and also the dealing of our governments 1215 01:18:38,080 --> 01:18:43,860 with our common natural resources without a common plan, 1216 01:18:43,960 --> 01:18:47,230 it's so important that we join forces 1217 01:18:47,330 --> 01:18:49,520 that we show solidarity to one another. 1218 01:18:49,620 --> 01:18:53,080 We act in a spirit of solidarity. 1219 01:18:53,170 --> 01:18:55,610 I think that was very important what you said. 1220 01:18:55,710 --> 01:18:57,730 I come from Poland, I think it's most important, 1221 01:18:57,830 --> 01:19:03,480 I would even like to see more pressure leveled by the European Union 1222 01:19:03,580 --> 01:19:06,110 as regards the climate targets. 1223 01:19:06,210 --> 01:19:09,360 I think it's most important that we have this institution, 1224 01:19:09,460 --> 01:19:11,730 that we have this union, 1225 01:19:11,830 --> 01:19:15,600 that reminds nation states that they should 1226 01:19:15,700 --> 01:19:20,850 not only act in their own best interest. 1227 01:19:20,950 --> 01:19:25,730 Let me say, as to what I wish for the future of Europe 1228 01:19:25,830 --> 01:19:29,140 and what I expect, well, 1229 01:19:29,240 --> 01:19:34,020 I hope that we in the future as Europeans recognize 1230 01:19:34,120 --> 01:19:37,480 and acknowledge that we can prosper, 1231 01:19:37,580 --> 01:19:44,940 that we can have prosperous societies that are modern and developed. 1232 01:19:45,040 --> 01:19:49,230 And still pursue an environmental policy. 1233 01:19:49,330 --> 01:19:54,270 And abide by the newest, most recent targets 1234 01:19:54,370 --> 01:19:58,030 of the state-of-the-art climate technology and climate science. 1235 01:19:59,230 --> 01:20:02,480 I think, as a mathematician, I know only too well 1236 01:20:02,580 --> 01:20:06,770 what steady economic growth of 2 % means. 1237 01:20:06,870 --> 01:20:10,060 You cannot grow indefinitely. 1238 01:20:10,160 --> 01:20:12,610 It would be something so dear to my heart, 1239 01:20:12,710 --> 01:20:22,070 and I take a very personal interest in this, that we try to give-, 1240 01:20:25,470 --> 01:20:29,410 that we concentrate perhaps a little bit more on our other problems. 1241 01:20:29,510 --> 01:20:33,680 And not so much only on GDP growth. 1242 01:20:33,770 --> 01:20:38,690 (Angela Merkel) Well, you can define of course growth 1243 01:20:38,790 --> 01:20:42,680 in a more comprehensive way, just measuring it by GDP 1244 01:20:42,780 --> 01:20:44,100 is certainly not sufficient, I mean, 1245 01:20:44,200 --> 01:20:47,860 more education will also lead to growth. 1246 01:20:47,960 --> 01:20:54,330 More circular economic is also growth. 1247 01:20:54,430 --> 01:20:57,820 We, in a way, have adopted to limit it. 1248 01:20:57,920 --> 01:21:01,280 But Poland for example has a very, very difficult road 1249 01:21:01,380 --> 01:21:02,650 towards climate neutrality. 1250 01:21:02,750 --> 01:21:07,340 If you have 70, 80 % coal that generates electricity 1251 01:21:07,420 --> 01:21:09,170 in your power plants. 1252 01:21:09,250 --> 01:21:10,400 It's difficult. 1253 01:21:10,500 --> 01:21:13,060 And at least in Germany, for example, people who, 1254 01:21:13,160 --> 01:21:18,190 where we say to them, your coal will no longer be used, 1255 01:21:18,290 --> 01:21:23,320 your jobs will be lost over time then there are huge fears, 1256 01:21:23,400 --> 01:21:24,440 where people say 1257 01:21:24,530 --> 01:21:28,210 where do we get our jobs, do we need to leave our home region. 1258 01:21:28,310 --> 01:21:32,810 And all of that needs to be seen and acknowledged 1259 01:21:32,910 --> 01:21:35,270 and obviously when there is a transition fund 1260 01:21:35,370 --> 01:21:38,480 at the European level, that bridges, this gap, 1261 01:21:38,580 --> 01:21:42,430 and finances the establishment of such jobs, 1262 01:21:42,520 --> 01:21:43,820 that is obviously very helpful. 1263 01:21:43,920 --> 01:21:46,620 Europe can be helpful in this respect. 1264 01:21:46,700 --> 01:21:48,110 (Change of speaker) Thank you very much. 1265 01:21:48,210 --> 01:21:50,400 I think, this is wonderful that you also mentioned 1266 01:21:50,490 --> 01:21:52,960 the different indicators that, in a 1267 01:21:53,050 --> 01:21:57,090 way, we limited ourselves too much to this one number. 1268 01:21:57,170 --> 01:22:01,520 It could be ten different numbers, ten different dimensions, so to speak, 1269 01:22:01,620 --> 01:22:02,890 they come in to play. 1270 01:22:02,990 --> 01:22:06,140 (Angela Merkel) Well, I think the new way of defining growth 1271 01:22:06,240 --> 01:22:10,700 will be qualitative growth and not simply quantitative growth. 1272 01:22:13,160 --> 01:22:16,940 But we also have to remember 1273 01:22:17,040 --> 01:22:21,400 that people would like their children to live in prosperity, 1274 01:22:21,500 --> 01:22:26,900 so what you said, this sort of interplanetary dimension 1275 01:22:27,000 --> 01:22:29,350 is something that we need to place in the foreground 1276 01:22:29,450 --> 01:22:32,370 and we need to say, this is about our common future. 1277 01:22:32,460 --> 01:22:37,570 (Change of speaker) Allow me to send an optimistic note from Silesia, 1278 01:22:37,670 --> 01:22:41,480 I am very active there for the local government 1279 01:22:41,580 --> 01:22:44,380 and I am also sort of doing promotion campaigns 1280 01:22:44,490 --> 01:22:47,480 and list the support for young people in my region. 1281 01:22:47,580 --> 01:22:51,230 My experience was actually excellent because at the local level, 1282 01:22:51,330 --> 01:22:54,020 there are so many people who become engaged, 1283 01:22:54,120 --> 01:22:57,610 who are motivated, who are committed, 1284 01:22:57,710 --> 01:23:01,570 who wish to bring this innovation forward, this change. 1285 01:23:01,670 --> 01:23:07,480 And quite often at a national level there are lot of blockades here. 1286 01:23:07,580 --> 01:23:11,270 People block these different initiatives at the national level. 1287 01:23:11,370 --> 01:23:14,310 But the grass roots, the people on the ground, 1288 01:23:14,410 --> 01:23:19,030 are very interested to put this into practice, 1289 01:23:19,130 --> 01:23:23,730 they know solutions, they see other avenues to change 1290 01:23:23,830 --> 01:23:27,650 and they need a little bit of support from the outside I think. 1291 01:23:27,750 --> 01:23:28,750 (Angela Merkel) Thank you. 1292 01:23:28,830 --> 01:23:30,220 That's very encouraging. 1293 01:23:30,310 --> 01:23:35,020 And I think we have to be very careful at the European level, 1294 01:23:35,120 --> 01:23:37,860 we quite often have these consultations with governments. 1295 01:23:37,960 --> 01:23:39,360 It's absolutely natural, 1296 01:23:39,460 --> 01:23:42,730 because they have the elected government of their countries, 1297 01:23:42,830 --> 01:23:43,940 interlocutors. 1298 01:23:44,040 --> 01:23:46,400 But a country is much more diverse, 1299 01:23:46,500 --> 01:23:51,780 has much more varied people in their civil society 1300 01:23:51,880 --> 01:23:54,310 who are engaged and that is something we are trying to do 1301 01:23:54,400 --> 01:23:56,340 with this conference of the future of Europe. 1302 01:23:56,420 --> 01:24:00,230 To address people on the ground, the grass roots as you said it, 1303 01:24:00,330 --> 01:24:01,570 as others here said it. 1304 01:24:01,670 --> 01:24:05,560 To give them a voice and that's why in conclusion, 1305 01:24:05,670 --> 01:24:13,770 I would like to call on you to write to us, 1306 01:24:13,870 --> 01:24:18,360 use your chats, use our hashtags, please make proposals. 1307 01:24:18,460 --> 01:24:21,920 Because we are trying to keep Europe as much as vibrant as possible. 1308 01:24:22,010 --> 01:24:25,830 (Moderator) I have one question to Ms. Saton as well: 1309 01:24:25,920 --> 01:24:29,780 what sort of role would you wish for the European Union to take globally? 1310 01:24:29,880 --> 01:24:32,690 What sort of concrete steps which you envisage, 1311 01:24:32,780 --> 01:24:38,440 what could the European union do or what should the European Union do 1312 01:24:38,550 --> 01:24:44,230 in order to play the right role as to environmental fairness. 1313 01:24:44,310 --> 01:24:45,930 (Change of speaker) Well, that's a very complex question 1314 01:24:46,030 --> 01:24:47,380 for the last few seconds. 1315 01:24:47,460 --> 01:24:50,280 But I would like to underline that many countries, 1316 01:24:50,380 --> 01:24:52,770 or even most countries of the world, 1317 01:24:52,870 --> 01:24:56,980 are looking towards Europe and are looking up to us. 1318 01:24:57,080 --> 01:25:01,360 And are looking to our technology, to our standard of living, 1319 01:25:01,460 --> 01:25:07,170 to our prosperity and I think as Europe we simply need to acknowledge that, 1320 01:25:07,260 --> 01:25:12,400 that we live in Utopia, we're very, very developed. 1321 01:25:12,500 --> 01:25:17,730 And that we should show the way to others how they can overcome this 1322 01:25:17,850 --> 01:25:24,540 one GDP indicator on which our economy was built so far. 1323 01:25:24,630 --> 01:25:26,380 How we can widen the view, 1324 01:25:26,480 --> 01:25:30,090 how we can also now in the aftermath of the pandemic, 1325 01:25:30,190 --> 01:25:32,670 where we did that, due to virology. 1326 01:25:32,770 --> 01:25:36,750 And perhaps try to look more at the scientific data 1327 01:25:36,850 --> 01:25:39,330 as regards the interdisciplinary development. 1328 01:25:40,520 --> 01:25:41,840 (Angela Merkel) What do you do as a mathematician? 1329 01:25:41,940 --> 01:25:45,260 (Change of speaker) I work as an adviser on sustainability, 1330 01:25:45,360 --> 01:25:52,340 in a way, during my doctorate I actually turned over to sustainability. 1331 01:25:52,440 --> 01:25:56,980 (Angela Merkel) Well, it's always useful to have a good training 1332 01:25:57,080 --> 01:25:59,000 in mathematics because that means 1333 01:25:59,080 --> 01:26:02,380 that you understand about exponential growth 1334 01:26:02,480 --> 01:26:06,080 and that we must not think in long linear lines 1335 01:26:06,180 --> 01:26:11,790 but we need to know that matters can speed up very quicky. 1336 01:26:12,900 --> 01:26:14,960 (Change of speaker) I very much agree, Madame Chancellor, 1337 01:26:15,060 --> 01:26:16,880 may I ask you one question? 1338 01:26:16,980 --> 01:26:18,840 (Angela Merkel) Yes, we have 47 seconds. 1339 01:26:18,940 --> 01:26:20,480 (Change of speaker) Could you tell us 1340 01:26:20,570 --> 01:26:25,600 what has given you the strength through these 16 years to do this job? 1341 01:26:27,440 --> 01:26:32,550 (Angela Merkel) I think one needs to like meeting people. 1342 01:26:32,650 --> 01:26:34,080 And I've always liked that, 1343 01:26:34,190 --> 01:26:36,390 I've always like meeting people who are committed, 1344 01:26:36,490 --> 01:26:39,290 who wish to change. 1345 01:26:39,390 --> 01:26:43,750 I have a curiosity as regards people and that has given me strength. 1346 01:26:43,850 --> 01:26:48,550 I think one shouldn't be shy and not like people. 1347 01:26:48,650 --> 01:26:51,510 One has to be confident that there will be solutions 1348 01:26:51,610 --> 01:26:53,420 and that you will always find other people 1349 01:26:53,520 --> 01:26:56,050 who will join you and try to bring about a solution. 1350 01:26:56,150 --> 01:26:58,680 And that politics is not something 1351 01:26:58,760 --> 01:27:01,890 that will replace actually human endeavour 1352 01:27:01,970 --> 01:27:06,670 but which opens up possibilities to others to do something. 1353 01:27:06,770 --> 01:27:11,760 I see politics as trying to ensure 1354 01:27:11,850 --> 01:27:17,310 that each and everyone can bring his or her own ideas to the full 1355 01:27:17,390 --> 01:27:22,130 and create freedom for people to develop their potential. 1356 01:27:22,230 --> 01:27:25,130 Obviously, in the most perfect world this would happen. 1357 01:27:25,230 --> 01:27:27,460 But as many people as possible are in on this, 1358 01:27:27,560 --> 01:27:30,590 if as many people as possible exchange views, 1359 01:27:30,690 --> 01:27:32,130 that is something I have always liked 1360 01:27:32,230 --> 01:27:34,210 and that has given me strength at least. 1361 01:27:34,310 --> 01:27:35,310 Thank you! 1362 01:27:35,390 --> 01:27:38,830 (Moderator) What a wonderful way to wrap up this very lively debate. 1363 01:27:38,930 --> 01:27:40,880 Thank you all! 1364 01:27:42,580 --> 01:27:47,330 I am sorry if not all of the different aspects had been mentioned 1365 01:27:47,430 --> 01:27:50,580 and we have not always unfortunately been able 1366 01:27:50,680 --> 01:27:54,090 to discuss everything because we were limited as for time. 1367 01:27:54,190 --> 01:27:57,170 But I think this was a very good discussion. 1368 01:27:57,270 --> 01:28:00,380 It actually highlighted the weaknesses 1369 01:28:00,480 --> 01:28:02,960 and also the strengths of the European Union opened up. 1370 01:28:03,060 --> 01:28:05,250 For the future, Madame Chancellor, 1371 01:28:05,350 --> 01:28:06,960 what did you take away from this? 1372 01:28:07,060 --> 01:28:09,090 Where there areas, points, where you said, 1373 01:28:09,190 --> 01:28:11,630 this was an important point to mention? 1374 01:28:11,730 --> 01:28:13,580 (Angela Merkel) Yes, of course. 1375 01:28:13,680 --> 01:28:18,750 I mean, what I take away from this is that Erasmus is apparently, 1376 01:28:18,850 --> 01:28:22,300 well, I like it is much as I used to like it before this talk. 1377 01:28:22,400 --> 01:28:24,290 Because no one really complained. 1378 01:28:24,400 --> 01:28:28,460 The second point is, I'm a little envious, I must say quite often. 1379 01:28:28,560 --> 01:28:30,540 Because I lived in the GDR by that time 1380 01:28:30,640 --> 01:28:34,670 and no one allowed us to leave, 1381 01:28:34,770 --> 01:28:37,380 perhaps to Prague, to Bucharest, to Sofia. 1382 01:28:37,480 --> 01:28:42,010 But this whole diversity of different languages that you learned, 1383 01:28:42,100 --> 01:28:44,350 diversity of countries that you were able to see 1384 01:28:44,440 --> 01:28:45,900 and practice the language. 1385 01:28:46,010 --> 01:28:47,790 That is wonderful. 1386 01:28:47,870 --> 01:28:51,710 And something else: 1387 01:28:51,820 --> 01:28:54,920 I don't think I need to be afraid for the future of Europe. 1388 01:28:55,010 --> 01:28:59,090 Because I see that you support it. 1389 01:28:59,210 --> 01:29:04,960 But also we need to see the historian from Lithuania, 1390 01:29:05,060 --> 01:29:12,750 Ms. Bartkute, sorry, that is certainly something 1391 01:29:12,850 --> 01:29:15,880 that right now keeps me busy. 1392 01:29:15,980 --> 01:29:19,420 I am actually worried about that because 1393 01:29:19,520 --> 01:29:21,630 there are a number of countries in Central and Eastern Europe 1394 01:29:21,730 --> 01:29:24,380 that do not feel all understood. 1395 01:29:24,480 --> 01:29:26,920 It does not necessarily have something to do with political parties. 1396 01:29:27,030 --> 01:29:29,990 I mean, in Poland too, there is a lot of internal strife, 1397 01:29:30,080 --> 01:29:34,340 It´s not between PU and PIS but it has a lot to do with the question: 1398 01:29:34,440 --> 01:29:36,420 are we actually understood properly? 1399 01:29:36,520 --> 01:29:42,290 And is one actually ready to hear about our experiences, 1400 01:29:42,390 --> 01:29:44,340 about how we see the world? 1401 01:29:44,440 --> 01:29:47,620 And I think that the experience of Central and Eastern Europe 1402 01:29:47,730 --> 01:29:52,500 from their own history is something that is very valuable for us. 1403 01:29:52,590 --> 01:29:55,330 We need to learn about this so that we learn how 1404 01:29:55,430 --> 01:29:58,500 to deal with dictatorships all over the world. 1405 01:29:58,620 --> 01:30:01,800 And we should listen to them and it's not as if those 1406 01:30:01,900 --> 01:30:06,400 who are members for longer have a greater right to be heard. 1407 01:30:06,500 --> 01:30:11,760 And I. as somebody who comes from GDR, is very much aware of this. 1408 01:30:11,860 --> 01:30:14,010 It's not as if-, 1409 01:30:14,110 --> 01:30:19,290 when you tell people you are only members people because of money. 1410 01:30:19,390 --> 01:30:21,250 That's a very dangerous kind of argument 1411 01:30:21,350 --> 01:30:24,620 because culture, experience, a lifelong experience, 1412 01:30:24,730 --> 01:30:27,760 that's something that, when you weigh it into the balance, 1413 01:30:27,840 --> 01:30:34,040 it's not as if money could be in any way offset against that. 1414 01:30:34,160 --> 01:30:37,510 That doesn't mean that I think that the political system in Hungary, 1415 01:30:37,610 --> 01:30:39,470 that we have in place right now, is a good one. 1416 01:30:39,570 --> 01:30:40,920 I have a lot of criticism there. 1417 01:30:41,020 --> 01:30:43,210 But I think this was very, very interesting. 1418 01:30:43,310 --> 01:30:46,590 It was interesting for, I think, all of us. 1419 01:30:46,690 --> 01:30:51,500 So please do support Europe, here or there, 1420 01:30:51,600 --> 01:30:54,330 where you travel with the choir of Britain 1421 01:30:54,430 --> 01:30:59,080 or whether you work on sustainability or whether you deal with history, 1422 01:31:00,120 --> 01:31:06,340 or whether you walk along the Santiago de Compostela. 1423 01:31:06,760 --> 01:31:08,970 (Moderator) Thank you very much and thank you very much for your time, 1424 01:31:09,070 --> 01:31:11,580 thank you for your interested questions 1425 01:31:11,680 --> 01:31:14,580 and we thank the German academic exchange as service 1426 01:31:14,680 --> 01:31:19,260 and also the Erasmus office for choosing our students 1427 01:31:19,360 --> 01:31:20,360 for this afternoon. 1428 01:31:20,360 --> 01:31:23,170 Thank you all of you for all your valuable contributions! 1429 01:31:23,270 --> 01:31:25,210 And to all of you back home: 1430 01:31:25,310 --> 01:31:26,790 thank you for listening, 1431 01:31:26,890 --> 01:31:30,170 thank you for viewing and have a wonderful evening! 1432 01:31:30,270 --> 01:31:33,290 Thank you and bye-bye!